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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: ADR68 on Friday 11 August 17 14:20 BST (UK)
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Hello All
I am looking for the parents of Robert Davies born 1854 in Denbigh, his father's was Edward Davies according to his Marriage Certificate.
Sorry this is all I have.
Thanks
Allan.
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What other info is on the marriage cert please?
Spouses name,occupations for Edward and Robert,witnesses,etc...
Maureen
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Do you have Robert on any censuses?
This could be him in 1871:
At Llandymon, Merionethshire
Davies, Edward Head M 41 Quarryman b Llangollen, Denbighshire
Davies, Jane Wife F 43 b Glyndyfrdwy, Merionethshire
Davies, Robert Son M 17 Flagstone Cutter b Llantysilio, Denbighshire
Davies, Margaret Daughter F 12 b Llangollen
Davies, Jane Daughter F 9 b Llangollen
Davies, Amelia Daughter F 7 b Llangollen
Davies, Richard Son M 4 b Llangollen
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Spouses name was Annie Williams , Edward was a seaman, the witnesses were Members of the Williams family, the family lived in Bootle, Lancashire.
Thanks for you reply.
Allan
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Do you have Robert on any censuses?
This could be him in 1871:
At Llandymon, Merionethshire
Davies, Edward Head M 41 Quarryman b Llangollen, Denbighshire
Davies, Jane Wife F 43 b Glyndyfrdwy, Merionethshire
Davies, Robert Son M 17 Flagstone Cutter b Llantysilio, Denbighshire
Davies, Margaret Daughter F 12 b Llangollen
Davies, Jane Daughter F 9 b Llangollen
Davies, Amelia Daughter F 7 b Llangollen
Davies, Richard Son M 4 b Llangollen
I have Robert on 1901 Census living in Bootle Lancashire.
Thanks for your reply.
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For those trying to help;
For Census in Lancs Robert is born;
1891 c 1851 - Llangar, Denbighshire
1901 c 1854 Denbigh, Denbighshire
1881 he might be boarding in Everton, Lancs, born c 1851 Hanfair, Denbighshire, Occp Mariner
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For those trying to help;
For Census in Lancs Robert is born;
1891 c 1851 - Llangar, Denbighshire
1901 c 1854 Denbigh, Denbighshire
1881 he might be boarding in Everton, Lancs, born c 1851 Hanfair, Denbighshire, Occp Mariner
Thanks Trish.
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Hopefully someone can help you Allen.
Wales is not my area of expertise.
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I have been looking :)
Thought I'd found a possible on the 1851 in Liverpool - Robert, aged 2 (note a lot older than his wife so could have rounded age down), mother named Catherine b. Denbigh and all the children born Henllan ( a village just to the NW of Denbigh). However, not the correct father's name and he was a skinner :-\
Nothing else looked anything like and no baptisms showing.
The Henfair would be Llanfair - see Genuki. Aalso Llangar* is in Merionethshire.
* but if derived from a transcription and not the image, it could be a mis-transcription of Llanfair. Could be Llanfair talhaiarn.
Gadget
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I have been looking :)
Thought I'd found a possible on the 1851 in Liverpool - Robert, aged 2 (note a lot older than his wife so could have rounded age down), mother named Catherine b. Denbigh and all the children born Henllan ( a village just to the NW of Denbigh). However, not the correct father's name and he was a skinner :-\
Nothing else looked anything like and no baptisms showing.
Thanks for your help, it's a tough one to solve.
Regards
Allan
The Henfair would be Llanfair - see Genuki. Aalso Llangar is in Merionethshire.
Gadget
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I added ~
The Henfair would be Llanfair - see Genuki. Aalso Llangar* is in Merionethshire.
* but if derived from a transcription and not the image, it could be a mis-transcription of Llanfair. Could be Llanfair talhaiarn.
Gadget
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Have either of you got the full census ref for the 1891 that you quote - it will save me trawling through index.
Added - in the olden days of RootsChat, we were encouraged to give full refs and details of census info - it seems that a bit of shorthand has crept in :-X
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Have either of you got the full census ref for the 1891 that you quote - it will save me trawling through index.
Sorry I haven't if it's too much trouble don't worry about it.
Allan
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Have either of you got the full census ref for the 1891 that you quote - it will save me trawling through index.
Sorry I haven't if it's too much trouble don't worry about it.
Allan
Have you not even got the full details - tis your request after all ::)
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Have either of you got the full census ref for the 1891 that you quote - it will save me trawling through index.
Sorry I haven't if it's too much trouble don't worry about it.
Allan
Have you not even got the full details - tis your request after all ::)
Sorry I haven't got details of the 1891 Census.
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Census ref is RG12/2971/7/7
It's not Llangar. It's either Llanfair or Llanfor. My hunch is that it's Llanfair Talhaiarn.
Have you any details of the 1911 - or did he not survive?
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Census ref is RG12/2971/7/7
It's not Llangar. It's either Llanfair or Llanfor. My hunch is that it's Llanfair Talhaiarn.
Have you any details of the 1911 - or did he not survive?
You got me on that one, I honestly don't know.
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Just a word about the 1861 Census if he is living in Denbigh,that census for Denbigh is missing.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Just a word about the 1861 Census if he is living in Denbigh,that census for Denbigh is missing.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
Thanks for your interest.
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ok so you say from the marriage cert that the fathers name was Edward, but what was his occupation?
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ok so you say from the marriage cert that the fathers name was Edward, but what was his occupation?
Thanks for your reply, Edward was a sailor.
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ok so where and when was the marriage?
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ok I have now found the marriage certificate, it wasn't Edward that was the sailor but it was Robert!
Edward was recorded as being deceased at the time of marriage and a labourer
the witnesses where William and ellen cauldwell
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I found an early census entry with Edward as a labourer but passed over it at the time. Not sure if I can re-find it.
Gadget
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ok I have now found the marriage certificate, it wasn't Edward that was the sailor but it was Robert!
Edward was recorded as being deceased at the time of marriage and a labourer
the witnesses where William and ellen cauldwell
Thanks for putting the record straight, it's very helpful in my research.
Regards
Allan
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so can we back step a bit please, how did you derive at Robert davies? what is your link, ive got to ask this seeing as the info and the way you have interpreted the marriage certificate was incorrect, and before spending too much time trying to find your info, would rather double check that you haven't misread other cencus/certificates
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so can we back step a bit please, how did you derive at Robert davies? what is your link, ive got to ask this seeing as the info and the way you have interpreted the marriage certificate was incorrect, and before spending too much time trying to find your info, would rather double check that you haven't misread other cencus/certificates
Hi Dawn Robert Davies was my gt grandfather, the family said he was born in Denbigh he moved to Liverpool and married Annie Williams, that's why I a trying find more about his family as very little is known about him.
I know his father was Edward and that's as far as I have got, as you can imagine Davies in Wales is a minefield to find.
Thanks
Allan
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yes I understand all that, but we need to start from something that is a total 100% definitely yours position, so from someone that you have a definite certificate for can you give us the details (aslong as they are dead!) cant give out living peoples details
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and yes I understand totally about the davies lot in wales! I'm one of them! mine are from llandulas abergele area tho
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possibles???
just so I don't loose them
Robert Davies
Age:
1
Estimated birth year:
abt 1850
Relation:
Son
Father's name:
Edward Davies
Mother's name:
Jane Davies
Gender:
Male
Where born:
Caerwys, Flintshire, Wales
Tre dre
Edward Davies 37
Jane Davies 37
Hugh Davies 14
Margaret Davies 10
Elizabeth Davies 8
Joseph Davies 5
Robert Davies 1
Robert Davies
Age:
6 Mo
Estimated birth year:
abt 1850
Relation:
Son
Father's name:
Edward Davies
Mother's name:
Hanna Davies
born:
Efenechtyd, Denbighshire, Wales
Tre r Llan
Edward Davies 56
Hanna Davies 33
Ruth Davies 11
Evan Davies 8
Ann Davies 6
Margaret Davies 3
Robert Davies 6 Mo
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yes I understand all that, but we need to start from something that is a total 100% definitely yours position, so from someone that you have a definite certificate for can you give us the details (aslong as they are dead!) cant give out living peoples details
The info I have is deffo my line, my grandfather was also Robert Davies born 1897 in Bootle Liverpool, his parents were Robert Davies a seaman and Annie Williams.
Thanks
Allan
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Robert William davies? registered in west derby 1897
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1901 census:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9KK-167
Annie born Llanfair, Anglesey.
Her mother, Elizabeth, born Denbigh.
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yes I know I have seen them on that, I'm trying to determine which one it is tho on the official birth records
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The GRO Index shows mother's maiden names for almost all births from 1837!
There is only 1 Robert Davies birth, with mmn Williams, in 1897, In or around Liverpool:
DAVIES, ROBERT WILLIAM (Mother's maiden name:) WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1897 M Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 470
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates
You have to register, but it's free to search the indexes. ;D
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yeah only 1 for 1897 but as found out some of the info has been given is incorrect and there are a few others that would also fit too
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Robert William davies? registered in west derby 1897
Bootle was part of the West Derby Registration District.
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but does you man have a middle name too?
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with any names such as this and esp once you are looking into wales itself you have to be 100% accurate, this is all to vague from the info you have given, I could help but well its getting a bit like pulling teeth to get any real info
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but does you man have a middle name too?
Yes Dawn William, Are you based in Wales?
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with any names such as this and esp once you are looking into wales itself you have to be 100% accurate, this is all to vague from the info you have given, I could help but well its getting a bit like pulling teeth to get any real info
My info isn't Vague Dawn , Robert WIllam Davies born 3rd Jan 1897 in Bootle is my grandfather, his father was Robert Davies born 1854 ish, he married Annie Williams , Roberts father was Edward Davies I don't know who Edwards wife is.
Regards
Allan
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no I'm not in wales currently, I will be in north wales next week not far from the area you are looking for actually,
ok so if you are sure tht date of birth is correct and have the certificate to prove it, can you give his siblings names so we can try and find them going back on the previous cencus
also have you got any idea when Robert 1854 died and where, if so have you checked for a will?
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1901
Class: RG13; Piece: 3443; Folio: 35; Page: 12
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9KK-169
1891
Class: RG12; Piece: 2971; Folio: 7; Page: 7
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:73L5-F3Z
Debra :)
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Sorry, but saying "1854 ish" is vague ;D
Marriage:
December qtr 1888
West Derby Registration District vol 8b, page 607
Davies, Robert
Williams, Annie
On the 1901 census, Robert (Senior) is aged 47 - that puts his birth around 1854.
On the 1891 census, Robert's age is shown as 40 - putting his birth around 1851?
1891 census is Class: RG12; Piece: 2971; Folio: 7; Page: 7
(Snap! Dundee ;D - but now I've typed it I am going to post it!)
Was Robert married before?
37 is rather old for a first marriage :-\
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1901
Class: RG13; Piece: 3443; Folio: 35; Page: 12
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9KK-169
1891
Class: RG12; Piece: 2971; Folio: 7; Page: 7
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:73L5-F3Z
Debra :)
Thanks Debra for your input.
Regards
Allan
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Sorry, but saying "1854 ish" is vague ;D
Marriage:
December qtr 1888
West Derby Registration District vol 8b, page 607
Davies, Robert
Williams, Annie
On the 1901 census, Robert (Senior) is aged 47 - that puts his birth around 1854.
On the 1891 census, Robert's age is shown as 40 - putting his birth around 1851?
1891 census is Class: RG12; Piece: 2971; Folio: 7; Page: 7
(Snap! Dundee ;D - but now I've typed it I am going to post it!)
Was Robert married before?
37 is rather old for a first marriage :-\
I had thought that too esp when you consider he is 14 yrs older than his wife, I do think it would be helpful if we could have his death date and place tho, and try and find his probate might give3 a few names on that or the OP getting the full will and again that is likely to have more info in it
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Sorry, but saying "1854 ish" is vague ;D
Marriage:
December qtr 1888
West Derby Registration District vol 8b, page 607
Davies, Robert
Williams, Annie
On the 1901 census, Robert (Senior) is aged 47 - that puts his birth around 1854.
On the 1891 census, Robert's age is shown as 40 - putting his birth around 1851?
1891 census is Class: RG12; Piece: 2971; Folio: 7; Page: 7
(Snap! Dundee ;D - but now I've typed it I am going to post it!)
Was Robert married before?
37 is rather old for a first marriage :-\
Sorry I don't know if he was married before .
Regards
Allan
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It will say on his marriage certificate.
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it says bachelor, but as we have found out with other marriages in the past that means nothing, even the bit about Edward being deceased means nothing really, Edward could have been alive and they had fallen out and if his new wife didn't know about his previous marriage then he could have just said batchelor
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it says bachelor, but as we have found out with other marriages in the past that means nothing, even the bit about Edward being deceased means nothing really, Edward could have been alive and they had fallen out and if his new wife didn't know about his previous marriage then he could have just said batchelor
Very true, I just at the deaths there are loads of them in West Derby Registration between 1901 -1920, as a matter of Interest I didn't marry till I was 36 it must run in the family lol.
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1881 he might be boarding in Everton, Lancs, born c 1851 Hanfair, Denbighshire, Occp Mariner
Boarding with the same WILLIAMS family in 1881 and 1871:
1881
Class: RG11; Piece: 3661; Folio: 35; Page: 12
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27L-D4CN
1871
Class: RG10; Piece: 3815; Folio: 35; Page: 15 and 16
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZGT-TW1
Possible brother John there in 1871.
Debra :)
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1881 he might be boarding in Everton, Lancs, born c 1851 Hanfair, Denbighshire, Occp Mariner
Boarding with the same WILLIAMS family in 1881 and 1871:
1881
Class: RG11; Piece: 3661; Folio: 35; Page: 12
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27L-D4CN
1871
Class: RG10; Piece: 3815; Folio: 35; Page: 15 and 16
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZGT-TW1
Possible brother John there in 1871.
Debra :)
Hi Debra that's great info, thanks.
Allan
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right you are going to have to go back thr all your certificates to try and figure out when his death took place
have you found him on any crew lists yet?
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right you are going to have to go back thr all your certificates to try and figure out when his death took place
have you found him on any crew lists yet?
That is too big a job there is about of them far to many his birth cert may be easier, in 1871 he lived with the William family in Everton he is aged 20 so his birth could be 1850 at Hanfair.
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not really as there is one that is consistently between Liverpool and eygpt, right up until the date of when your Robert got married!
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not really as there is one that is consistently between Liverpool and eygpt, right up until the date of when your Robert got married!
Robert Davies married Annie Williams 25 Dec 1888 he was aged 38 Annie was 26, also when my grandfather was born in 1897 his father is Robert William Davies so Robert and had a middle name.
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Possible marriage for John DAVIES in 1872 to Ann ROBERTS. Father Edward a labourer, witnesses Robert WILLIAMS and Ann JONES.
This couple match this family in 1881:
Class: RG11; Piece: 3663; Folio: 110; Page: 10
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27L-DGTD
Births for all the named children have mother's maiden surname as ROBERTS. The youngest child is mistranscribed, he is Richard Nathan, not Richard William.
John's occupation varies; a Porter in 1871, Butcher when he married and Stevedore in 1881.
Debra :)
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Possible marriage for John DAVIES in 1872 to Ann ROBERTS. Father Edward a labourer, witnesses Robert WILLIAMS and Ann JONES.
This couple match this family in 1881:
Class: RG11; Piece: 3663; Folio: 110; Page: 10
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27L-DGTD
Births for all the named children have mother's maiden surname as ROBERTS. The youngest child is mistranscribed, he is Richard Nathan, not Richard William.
John's occupation varies; a Porter in 1871, Butcher when he married and Stevedore in 1881.
Debra :)
Thanks Debra looks like your on the right track.
Allan
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Robert Willliam and mother Annie in 1911:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWT7-8LK
Debra :)
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Robert Willliam and mother Annie in 1911:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWT7-8LK
Debra :)
Thanks Debra your a gem, have you ever come across a situation where a child has not been registered or baptised?
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Not all religious denominations practice infant baptism - so, not finding a baptism is fairly common.
Neither my daughters, nor my grandchildren have been baptised.
After 1874, parents could be fined for not registering a birth.
Before that the onus was on the Registrar to collect information.
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Not all religious denominations practice infant baptism - so, not finding a baptism is fairly common.
Neither my daughters, nor my grandchildren have been baptised.
After 1874, parents could be fined for not registering a birth.
Before that the onus was on the Registrar to collect information.
Thanks for your input the reason I ask is I have a direct line who is the only child of 8 not Registered or baptised which I find odd.
Regards
Allan
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I think you mean that there is one child of 8, for which you have not yet found a Birth Registration or Baptism. ;D
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I think you mean that there is one child of 8, for which you have not yet found a Birth Registration or Baptism. ;D
Yes been looking for 18years, during that time I have had every Birth registration checked in 1839/41 and he has deffo not been registered and and no sign of baptism either.