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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: norma_jess on Monday 14 August 17 15:08 BST (UK)
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I am looking for Benjamin Thomas in the 1841 census with a view to finding his father's name and where and when his parents where married and if there where any siblings to find out how John
Griffiths is related. Is he nephew to Benjamin or Hannah.
1851 Census.
Benjamin Thomas Head Unmarried Male 28 1823 Freeholder & Farmer Of 34 Acres Employing 1 Lab Denbighshire, Wales
Hannah Thomas Mother Widow Female 67 1784 Farmer's Mother Widow Denbighshire, Wales
John Griffiths Nephew Unmarried Male 19 1832 Ag Lab Nephew Denbighshire, Wales
Catherine Edwards Servant Unmarried Female 20 1831 House Servant Mold, Flintshire, Wales
1861. Census
Benjamin Thomas Head Married Male 38 1823 Grocer Llanarmon, Denbighshire, Wales
Elizabeth A Thomas Wife Married Female 25 1836 - Mold, Flintshire, Wales
Hannah Thomas Mother Widow Female 77 1784 Grocers Widow St Asaph, Flintshire, Wales
Martha A Jones Niece - Female 10 1851 Scholar Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales
1871 Census.
Benjamin Thomas Head - Male 48 1823 - Denbighshire, Wales
Elizabeth Arabella Thomas Wife - Female 35 1836 - Flintshire, Wales
John Thomas Son - Male 9 1862 - Flintshire, Wales
Hannah Thomas Daughter - Female 8 1863 - Denbighshire, Wales
Jane Jones Servant - Female 17 1854 - Denbighshire, Wales
Regards Norma
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Possible birth reg for Martha A Jones who is with them in 1861
JONES, MARTHA ANN THOMAS
1851 March Quarter in WREXHAM Volume 27 Page 291
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I am looking for Benjamin Thomas in the 1841 census with a view to finding his father's name and where and when his parents where married and if there where any siblings to find out how John
Griffiths is related. Is he nephew to Benjamin or Hannah.
1851 Census.
Benjamin Thomas Head Unmarried Male 28 1823 Freeholder & Farmer Of 34 Acres Employing 1 Lab Denbighshire, Wales
Hannah Thomas Mother Widow Female 67 1784 Farmer's Mother Widow Denbighshire, Wales
John Griffiths Nephew Unmarried Male 19 1832 Ag Lab Nephew Denbighshire, Wales
Catherine Edwards Servant Unmarried Female 20 1831 House Servant Mold, Flintshire, Wales
1861. Census
Benjamin Thomas Head Married Male 38 1823 Grocer Llanarmon, Denbighshire, Wales
Elizabeth A Thomas Wife Married Female 25 1836 - Mold, Flintshire, Wales
Hannah Thomas Mother Widow Female 77 1784 Grocers Widow St Asaph, Flintshire, Wales
Martha A Jones Niece - Female 10 1851 Scholar Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales
1871 Census.
Benjamin Thomas Head - Male 48 1823 - Denbighshire, Wales
Elizabeth Arabella Thomas Wife - Female 35 1836 - Flintshire, Wales
John Thomas Son - Male 9 1862 - Flintshire, Wales
Hannah Thomas Daughter - Female 8 1863 - Denbighshire, Wales
Jane Jones Servant - Female 17 1854 - Denbighshire, Wales
Regards Norma
If he was living in the Wrexham area in 1841 you won't find him.The entire Census for the Wrexham area is missing.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hi Norma
Do you have Benjamin's marriage certificate? That should give you his father's name.
Possible marriage? Gt Boughton RD covered a part of Flintshire.
Marriages Dec 1860
Davies Elizabeth Arabella Gt Boughton 8a 558 ***
Jones Margaret Gt Boughton 8a 558
Jones Peter Gt Boughton 8a 558
THOMAS Benjamin Gt. Boughton 8a 558 ***
From FreeBMD https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Giggsy
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Great Boughton also (and mainly) covered Chester
21 Dec 1860 St Oswald, Chester
Benjamin Thomas and Elizabeth Arabella Davies
Benjamin's father - John Thomas, dec,. farmer
Elizabeth's father - Robert Davies, farmer
Gadget
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I don't immediately see a marriage for a John Thomas and a Hannah - could be Flintshire, Denbighshire or Cheshire :-\
Gadget
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Thankyou Gadget ;D
Giggsy
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I know of the Gt Boughton RD as some of OH's ancestors were born there - so automatically thought 'Chester' :)
I've looked for John and Hannah's marriage on FreeReg and on my own Welsh sources but so far nothing :-\
Will have a think - could be a non-conformist marriage that's not been transcribed.
Gadget
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Just posting this because I found it - not necessarily correct!
Name John Thomas
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 24 Jan 1814
Event Place Ruabon, Denbighshire, Wales
Spouse's Name Hannah Jones
Any more suggestions peeps?
Giggsy
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;D
I saw that one but didn't think it could be correct as not in the correct area - Ruabon is quite a way from either Llanarmon (yn Ial/Yal) or St Asaph. Might be but .............................
Gadget
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Ah well! I had a senior moment (not unusual) and confused Elizabeth with Hannah who was from Mold. Sort of in the general area? Anyway I will go and take my Meds now!
Giggsy
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My Ruabon records (Clwyd FHS) don't say much - both otp but that could be for the min of 3 weeks with banns. Hannah could possibly have become a servant on John's farm and then they got married in Ruabon - a way from Erryrys (Llanarmon ybn Ial) but just possible. Hannah (b. c. 1784) would have been 30 by then.
I'll check to see if there was a Hannah Jones/John Thomas* in Ruabon around that time (children's bapts, etc) so that we can discount the marriage but it will be late tomorrow.
Gadget
* not the most unusual of names
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there's a small item in Y Cymro of 28 December 1899 , mentioning a Benjamin Thomas, Glyn Bank, Nercwys, who died March 22, aged 76. he was son of the old Antinomian preacher John Thomas, Penyfoel, who was buried in June 1848.
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And a report of his death
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3805057/3805060/31/
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definitely our Benjamin - probate is given to widow Elizabeth Arabella
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definitely our Benjamin - probate is given to widow Elizabeth Arabella
???
Info on marriage already given above with father as John Thomas.
Added - We really need Hannah's maiden name (laptop playing games)
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Thank you all for the replies. You are right about the John as Benjamin's father, I had forgotten that. I have yet to find a baptism for Benjamin and who John Griffiths is the nephew off whether it is Benjamin as head of house in 1851 census or Hannah. Was hoping the 1841 census would give possible siblings.
Thank you again Norma
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definitely our Benjamin - probate is given to widow Elizabeth Arabella
???
Info on marriage already given above with father as John Thomas.
Added - We really need Hannah's maiden name (laptop playing games)
I was showing that the probate listing made clear that the Benjamin Thomas of Nercwys who died in 1899, son of the preacher, was the one we were following. With the information that John died in 1848, and was an Antinomian preacher, that may give us some more to work with to find them in 1841
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It's quite likely that the family are on one of the missing pieces in 1841:
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/census-for-england-wales-and-scotland-missing-pieces
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Just checked and the area that they were living in in 1851 was missing in 1841
Cyfnant Erryrys/Eryrys (Llanarmon yn Ial) is listed as missing.
Added - I've got the Denbighshire n-con CD and will check it tomorrow - had a busy day.
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The will of John Thomas:
https://viewer.library.wales/125190#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&xywh=-154%2C-4991%2C3072%2C13396
This might list his other children.
Gadget
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Difficult to read but apart from Benjamin, he mentions his children ~ Martha, the wife of David Jones,Joseph, Hannah, Rebecca and Charlotte and Grandson John Griffiths, Granddaughter Annah Griffiths.
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Thank you very much, with John Griffiths named as grandson i now know that John is Benjamin's nephew, I now need to find his parents. Thanks again Norma
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The will of John Thomas:
https://viewer.library.wales/125190#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&xywh=-154%2C-4991%2C3072%2C13396
This might list his other children.
Gadget
Great find gadget!
Cas
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Been doing more investigations.
Did John Griffiths marry Harriet Clarke at Christ Church, Pontblyddyn, Flintshire in 1854*? They had a son, Edmund circa 1856 and a daughter Rebecca in 1860/61. On the 1861 Census at Benllan, Gwersyllt RG9/4277/112/30. John born Llanarmon and Harriet born Leeswood.
* from NWales BMD
I don't see a record of their marriage online but the RG ref is 4th Quarter, 1854, Holywell, 11B, 586
This would probably give details of John's father.
Gadget
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one ancestry tree has his father as John, mother unknown
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Maybe best to get the marriage cert. I always doubt online trees. Need proper proof.
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Just checked the censuses and I think that Harriet's mother was named Ruth. John and Harriet's first daughter was named Rebecca and Benjamin had a sister called Rebecca (mentioned in John's will) so was Rebecca John (1832)s mother ....
Added - bpt Mold, May 1832 - father Robert,farmer, mother -Ruth., of Leeswood.
Added 2 - had a look at that tree with father John Griffiths - think it's a wee bit out - John the younger seems to have been born at 3 different times in 3 different places ::) ::) ::)
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Thank you for the replies, and apologies for not replying sooner have been away with very poor phone signal and no internet. Norma