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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: norma_jess on Monday 14 August 17 15:08 BST (UK)

Title: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: norma_jess on Monday 14 August 17 15:08 BST (UK)


I am looking for Benjamin Thomas in the 1841 census with a view to finding his father's name and where and when his parents where married and if there where any siblings to find out how John
Griffiths is related. Is he nephew to Benjamin or Hannah.

1851 Census.

Benjamin    Thomas    Head    Unmarried    Male    28    1823    Freeholder & Farmer Of 34 Acres Employing 1 Lab    Denbighshire, Wales    
Hannah    Thomas    Mother    Widow    Female    67    1784    Farmer's Mother Widow    Denbighshire, Wales    
John    Griffiths    Nephew    Unmarried    Male    19    1832    Ag Lab Nephew    Denbighshire, Wales    
Catherine    Edwards    Servant    Unmarried    Female    20    1831    House Servant    Mold, Flintshire, Wales

1861. Census

Benjamin    Thomas    Head    Married    Male    38    1823    Grocer    Llanarmon, Denbighshire, Wales    
Elizabeth A    Thomas    Wife    Married    Female    25    1836    -    Mold, Flintshire, Wales    
Hannah    Thomas    Mother    Widow    Female    77    1784    Grocers Widow    St Asaph, Flintshire, Wales    
Martha A    Jones    Niece    -    Female    10    1851    Scholar    Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales

1871 Census.
Benjamin    Thomas    Head    -    Male    48    1823    -    Denbighshire, Wales    
Elizabeth Arabella    Thomas    Wife    -    Female    35    1836    -    Flintshire, Wales    
John    Thomas    Son    -    Male    9    1862    -    Flintshire, Wales    
Hannah    Thomas    Daughter    -    Female    8    1863    -    Denbighshire, Wales    
Jane    Jones    Servant    -    Female    17    1854    -    Denbighshire, Wales

Regards Norma
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 14 August 17 15:52 BST (UK)
Possible birth reg for Martha A Jones who is with them in 1861
JONES, MARTHA  ANN     THOMAS     
1851  March Quarter in WREXHAM  Volume 27  Page 291
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: wrjones on Monday 14 August 17 16:35 BST (UK)


I am looking for Benjamin Thomas in the 1841 census with a view to finding his father's name and where and when his parents where married and if there where any siblings to find out how John
Griffiths is related. Is he nephew to Benjamin or Hannah.

1851 Census.

Benjamin    Thomas    Head    Unmarried    Male    28    1823    Freeholder & Farmer Of 34 Acres Employing 1 Lab    Denbighshire, Wales    
Hannah    Thomas    Mother    Widow    Female    67    1784    Farmer's Mother Widow    Denbighshire, Wales    
John    Griffiths    Nephew    Unmarried    Male    19    1832    Ag Lab Nephew    Denbighshire, Wales    
Catherine    Edwards    Servant    Unmarried    Female    20    1831    House Servant    Mold, Flintshire, Wales

1861. Census

Benjamin    Thomas    Head    Married    Male    38    1823    Grocer    Llanarmon, Denbighshire, Wales    
Elizabeth A    Thomas    Wife    Married    Female    25    1836    -    Mold, Flintshire, Wales    
Hannah    Thomas    Mother    Widow    Female    77    1784    Grocers Widow    St Asaph, Flintshire, Wales    
Martha A    Jones    Niece    -    Female    10    1851    Scholar    Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales

1871 Census.
Benjamin    Thomas    Head    -    Male    48    1823    -    Denbighshire, Wales    
Elizabeth Arabella    Thomas    Wife    -    Female    35    1836    -    Flintshire, Wales    
John    Thomas    Son    -    Male    9    1862    -    Flintshire, Wales    
Hannah    Thomas    Daughter    -    Female    8    1863    -    Denbighshire, Wales    
Jane    Jones    Servant    -    Female    17    1854    -    Denbighshire, Wales

Regards Norma

If he was living in the Wrexham area in 1841 you won't find him.The entire Census for the Wrexham area is missing.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: giggsycat on Monday 14 August 17 19:22 BST (UK)
Hi Norma

Do you have Benjamin's marriage certificate? That should give you his father's name.

Possible marriage? Gt Boughton RD covered a part of Flintshire.

Marriages Dec 1860   

Davies    Elizabeth Arabella     Gt Boughton    8a   558     ***
Jones    Margaret        Gt Boughton    8a   558   
Jones    Peter        Gt Boughton    8a   558   
THOMAS    Benjamin        Gt. Boughton    8a   558            ***

From FreeBMD https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Giggsy
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: Gadget on Monday 14 August 17 19:37 BST (UK)
Great Boughton also (and mainly) covered Chester

21 Dec 1860 St Oswald, Chester

Benjamin Thomas and Elizabeth Arabella Davies

Benjamin's father - John Thomas, dec,. farmer

Elizabeth's father - Robert Davies, farmer


Gadget
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: Gadget on Monday 14 August 17 19:46 BST (UK)
I don't immediately see a marriage for a John Thomas and a Hannah - could be Flintshire, Denbighshire or Cheshire  :-\

Gadget
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: giggsycat on Monday 14 August 17 19:58 BST (UK)
Thankyou Gadget  ;D

Giggsy
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: Gadget on Monday 14 August 17 20:04 BST (UK)
I know of the Gt Boughton RD  as some of OH's ancestors were born there  - so automatically thought 'Chester'  :)

I've looked for John and Hannah's marriage on FreeReg and on my own Welsh sources but so far nothing  :-\

Will have a think - could be a non-conformist marriage that's not been transcribed.


Gadget
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: giggsycat on Monday 14 August 17 20:20 BST (UK)
Just posting this because I found it - not necessarily correct!

Name           John Thomas
Event Type   Marriage
Event Date   24 Jan 1814
Event Place   Ruabon, Denbighshire, Wales
Spouse's Name   Hannah Jones

Any more suggestions peeps?


Giggsy
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: Gadget on Monday 14 August 17 20:26 BST (UK)
 ;D

I saw that one but didn't think it could be correct as not in the correct area - Ruabon is quite a way from either Llanarmon (yn Ial/Yal) or St Asaph.  Might be but .............................



Gadget
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: giggsycat on Monday 14 August 17 20:42 BST (UK)
Ah well! I had a senior moment (not unusual) and confused Elizabeth with Hannah who was from Mold. Sort of in the general area? Anyway I will go and take my Meds now!

Giggsy
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: Gadget on Monday 14 August 17 21:20 BST (UK)
My Ruabon records (Clwyd FHS)  don't say much - both otp but that could be for the min of 3 weeks with banns. Hannah could possibly have become a servant on John's farm and then they got married in Ruabon - a way from Erryrys (Llanarmon ybn Ial) but just possible. Hannah (b. c. 1784) would have been 30 by then.
I'll check to see if there was a Hannah Jones/John Thomas* in Ruabon around that time (children's bapts, etc)  so that we can discount  the marriage but it will be late tomorrow.

Gadget

* not the most unusual of names
 
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Monday 14 August 17 22:10 BST (UK)
there's a small item in Y Cymro of 28 December 1899 , mentioning a Benjamin Thomas, Glyn Bank, Nercwys, who died March 22, aged 76. he was son of the old  Antinomian preacher John Thomas, Penyfoel, who was buried in June 1848.

Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Monday 14 August 17 22:12 BST (UK)
And a report of his death

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3805057/3805060/31/
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Monday 14 August 17 22:15 BST (UK)
definitely our Benjamin - probate is given to widow Elizabeth Arabella
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: Gadget on Monday 14 August 17 22:23 BST (UK)
definitely our Benjamin - probate is given to widow Elizabeth Arabella

 ???

Info on marriage already given above with father as John Thomas.


Added - We really need Hannah's maiden name  (laptop  playing games)
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: norma_jess on Tuesday 15 August 17 07:23 BST (UK)
Thank you all for the replies.  You are right about the John as Benjamin's father, I had forgotten that.   I have yet to find a baptism for Benjamin and who  John Griffiths is the nephew off whether it is Benjamin as head of house in 1851 census or Hannah. Was hoping the 1841 census would give possible siblings.

Thank you again Norma
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Tuesday 15 August 17 19:28 BST (UK)
definitely our Benjamin - probate is given to widow Elizabeth Arabella

 ???

Info on marriage already given above with father as John Thomas.


Added - We really need Hannah's maiden name  (laptop  playing games)

I was showing that the probate listing made clear that the Benjamin Thomas of Nercwys who died in 1899, son of the preacher, was the one we were following. With the information that John died in 1848, and was an Antinomian preacher, that may give us some more to work with to find them in 1841
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 15 August 17 19:43 BST (UK)
It's quite likely that the family are on one of the missing pieces  in 1841:

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/census-for-england-wales-and-scotland-missing-pieces
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 15 August 17 19:48 BST (UK)
Just  checked and the area that they were living in in 1851 was missing in 1841

Cyfnant Erryrys/Eryrys (Llanarmon yn Ial)  is listed as missing.

Added - I've got the Denbighshire n-con CD and will check it tomorrow - had a busy day.

Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 15 August 17 20:38 BST (UK)
The will of John Thomas:

https://viewer.library.wales/125190#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&xywh=-154%2C-4991%2C3072%2C13396

This might list his other children.

Gadget
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 15 August 17 21:47 BST (UK)
Difficult to read  but apart from Benjamin, he mentions his children ~ Martha, the wife of David Jones,Joseph, Hannah, Rebecca and Charlotte and Grandson John Griffiths, Granddaughter Annah Griffiths.
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: norma_jess on Wednesday 16 August 17 07:15 BST (UK)
Thank you very much, with John Griffiths named as grandson i now know that John is Benjamin's nephew, I now need to find his parents.  Thanks again Norma
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Wednesday 16 August 17 12:05 BST (UK)
The will of John Thomas:

https://viewer.library.wales/125190#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&xywh=-154%2C-4991%2C3072%2C13396

This might list his other children.

Gadget

Great find gadget!

Cas
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 17 August 17 11:52 BST (UK)
Been doing more investigations.

Did John Griffiths marry Harriet Clarke at Christ Church, Pontblyddyn, Flintshire in 1854*?  They had a son, Edmund circa 1856 and a daughter Rebecca in 1860/61. On the 1861 Census at Benllan, Gwersyllt RG9/4277/112/30. John born Llanarmon and Harriet born Leeswood.

* from NWales BMD

I don't see a record of their marriage online but the RG ref is 4th Quarter, 1854, Holywell, 11B, 586

This would probably  give details of John's father.

Gadget
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Thursday 17 August 17 12:47 BST (UK)
one ancestry tree has his father as John, mother unknown
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 17 August 17 12:49 BST (UK)
Maybe best to get the marriage cert. I always doubt online trees. Need proper proof.
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 17 August 17 13:08 BST (UK)
Just checked the censuses  and I think that Harriet's mother was named Ruth.  John and Harriet's first daughter was named Rebecca and Benjamin had a sister called Rebecca (mentioned in John's will) so was Rebecca John (1832)s mother ....

Added - bpt Mold, May 1832 - father Robert,farmer, mother -Ruth., of Leeswood.

Added 2 - had a look at that tree with father John Griffiths - think it's a wee bit out - John the younger seems to have been born at 3 different times in 3 different places  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Benjamin Thomas.
Post by: norma_jess on Tuesday 22 August 17 14:52 BST (UK)
Thank you for the replies, and apologies for not replying sooner have been away with very poor phone signal and no internet.  Norma