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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: kall on Saturday 19 August 17 17:36 BST (UK)
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Looking for help please
My 2X gt grandfather was James Hooper or at least that was what I thought.....got his marriage certificate and it states his name as James Hopper married to Elizabeth Connel parents James Hopper and Jessie Livingstone
Started to look at free census and found James Snr and Jessie both living in Annan both Nursery labourers but both single in 1861 when James was supposedly born....couldn't find James Hopper or Hopper born in Annan but did find James Livingston born illegitimate to Jessie Livingston
Do I assume that they are one and the same
Also have Jessie Livingstone death certificate which states that she was single and the witness was Edward who was listed as her father on 1861 census
Don't have access to 1871 or 1871 census so can't do any checking
Can anyone solve my problem please
Many thanks
Karen
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This looks like James Livingston in the 1871 census
Edward Livingstone 55 Pauper Formerly Stokerings Boat b Kirkcudbrightshire
Isabell Livingston 52 b Lochmaben, dfsshire
Jessie Livingston 32 Nursery Worker b Annan
James Livingston 9 Grandson b Annan
Kay
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That's great Kay.....Thankyou.
Just need to find out when he changes his surname to Hooper or Hopper
Does the census have an address Kay
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Sorry - in 1871 they were at Butts St, Annan
Kay
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Thankyou Kay......are you able to find him in the 1881 please
He didn't marry until 1883
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Not at the moment - Where did he marry?
Kay
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He married in New Abbey, Kirkcudbrightshire in 1883 to Elizabeth Connel......think he lied about his age as he said he was born in 1857.....she was older and already had children...again illegitimate
Don't know what it is about my dads side of the family....so many illegitimate and trying to put the pieces together
Interesting on his death certificate there is no mention of the father....but it was his son in law who was witness...so maybe he just didn't know
Thanks
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Thanks
Checking Scotlands People's free search it looks like his mother and grandparents died pre 1881
All death in Annan
1871 Jessie Livingston age 32
1879 Edward Livingstone age 62
1878 Isabella Livingstone age 64
Kay
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Thanks Kay.....do you think I have the right parents for James Hooper......I am nearly positive as James Hopper and Jessie Livingstone in 1861 only lived about a 4 minute walk from each other and both worked as nursery labourers
What are the chances of there being another couple in a small town with same names getting together.....by the way she went on to have more children but don't know who with
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He certainly looks to have the right mother and the parents never married
Have to pop out now but will check back later
Kay
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Thanks for your help Kay
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A lovely Rootschatter in chat has found James in 1871 listed as Livingston and living with his mother and grandparents......just wondered where his father was....they never married.....and when he changed his name to Hopper
Thanks
Karen
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Illegitimate children often went by the surname of their reputed father. In some cases they swapped around the surnames, back and forth (which never helps really on searches ::)).
Similarly, when marrying, they often gave details on their parents as if they were married.
Monica
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Hi Monica
Yes he was Livingstone in 1871 and by the time he got married he was using the name Hopper.
On his marriage certificate he named his mother as Hopper....they were not married.....and the words reputed didn't appear anywhere....have another ancestor that put that on his marriage certificate.... but he also was a bit off with his age too....he married an older woman with children
Wish I had a time machine
Many thanks
Karen
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You mentioned you had James Hopper in 1861 living at Butts Street in Annan (at home with parents David and Seaton. Born c. 1836 in Cummertrees)? Can't see him in 1871 but this looks like him in 1881, married and living in Annan:
James Hopper 42 gen lab. b. Cummertrees
Janet Hopper 32 b. Glasgow
David Hopper 6 b. Glasgow
James Hopper 2 b. Annan
Margaret Hopper 1 b. Annan
Address: English Street, Annan
Monica
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That sounds promising Monica....will check it out in the morning....Thankyou
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Was thinking that James maybe went to live with his father after his mother died and that is when he changed his surname to Hopper......any thoughts anyone?