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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: sadge on Monday 28 August 17 17:42 BST (UK)
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Hi, I have a Joseph Thomas born 1884 registered in Leigh district from Tyldesley who on the 1901 census was living with his stepsister next door to this mother under the name Joseph Thomas and his sister was Lily Thomas, their mother took this surname from her stepfather, originally she was an Ivey born in Cornwall. When Lily and her brother Joseph married they married under the name of Ivey. I have not yet obtained the right birth certificate for Joseph and going to give it another try, but am wondering how common or easy it was to just change you name back then and if it was legal??
Apart from his birth I know all there is to know roughly about Joseph as he is my husbands grandfather and was killed in WW1. Am just perplexed by the name change and why after being a Thomas all the years they were would they change to being Ivey.
Thanks in advance
Susan
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You could always use whatever name you liked, as long as it was not for illegal purposes, the change did not need any legal process, although if you chose you could pay to change by Deed Poll.
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Hello,
In 1901 he is shown as nephew ???
1891 3091/48/
Elizabeth Ivy single 30 yrs dressmaker b Cornwall
Joseph Ivy son 6 yrs
Mary Jane Thomas step sister 21 yrs
Sarah A Thomas step sister 11 yrs
1901 he is living with his mother's step sister so that would account for nephew.
Is that the right family?
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Could this be his birth from the GRO site - the lack of mother's surname usually means she was unmarried. The name Rule could indicate his father's name.
IVEY, JOSEPH RULE mmn -
1885
J Quarter
REDRUTH Volume 05C Page 226
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Heywood yes that is the right family, the surname was spelt wrong as its Ivey .
Jebber thanks for the information as I didn't know you could just change your name like that. I worried that when he married under the name Ivey it might not be legal, but he joined up in WW1 under that name also and when his wife died that surname died with her up this way.
groom I have looked in the past at the Joseph Rule Ivey but although the family are from Redruth our Joseph was born in Tyldesley, his mum first lived in Pemberton when they moved north for the mining.
Susan
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Do you have the family before 1891?
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Yes Heywood I have Joseph's mother Elizabeth Ivey from who was born in 1861 in Brea Cornwall she is on the 1861 census, right through to the 1911 one, thank you.
Susan
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Here is 1881 3781/30/7
Orrell, Lancs
Richard Thomas widower 37 yrs Coal Miner b Camborne, Cornwall
Mary Jane Thomas daughter 12 yrs b Camborne
Elizabeth Ivey step daughter 20 yrs b Camborne
Sarah Ann Ivey grand stepdaughter 1 yr b Pemberton
So is Sarah Ann also Elizabeth's child?
I had just found this when you posted.
It was just that you said Joseph was with his step sister but Mary Jane would be his step aunt, I think?
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Heywood, when Sarah A Thomas was baptised at the age of 19 years it is down that Richard Thomas and Jane were here parents. Now given Jane died in 1878 I would doubt very much she was her daughter. We do not know who the father is of any of these children but might hazard guess that it might be Richard Thomas but no proof.
Susan
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Thanks Sue.
Going back to your original post, Elizabeth is Thomas in 1871 when she is 10 yrs old so probably no control over her name.
In 1881 and 1891.she is Elizabeth Ivey.
Did she marry Samuel Radford? What name did she use?
In 1901 Joseph's name was probably provided by the householder as Thomas.
I haven't checked 1911.
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1911 census Joseph is Ivey and down as son in law, he is married by then to Ruth Copeland. I did notice that Elizabeth is a Thomas then back to Ivey. When Elizabeth married Samuel Redford she married as Bessie Ivey.
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Heywood, when Sarah A Thomas was baptised at the age of 19 years it is down that Richard Thomas and Jane were here parents. Now given Jane died in 1878 I would doubt very much she was her daughter. We do not know who the father is of any of these children but might hazard guess that it might be Richard Thomas but no proof.
Susan
Lancashire BMD shows birth of Sarah Ann Ivy with mother's name Ivy.
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Surnames often switch back and forth when the mother remarries (as they do today). Often this is done for convenience - how many times do you want to explain why your child has a different surname from the rest of the family?
Sometimes a child sticks with the stepfather's surname because that was the only father they ever knew. It might come as a surprise that their birth certificate had a different name on it.
One of my own gg gfs was born as Edward Pickering. His father died when he was 4, and his mother remarried when he was 11. He is Edward Crewdson in 1891, and again in 1901 AFTER he had moved out of the family home. He married in 1903 and lived thereafter as Edward Pickering. The witnesses were his newly married brother John Crewdson and his wife.