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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: iwccc on Tuesday 29 August 17 08:53 BST (UK)
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I have a exact entry of birth but it appears that the year date on it has been changed. Can't seem to find a correct year date. The name is William Copland born 14th December, 191????
at Govan. Glasgow. Father James Dargavel Copland, mother Margaret Halbert. Any help to ascertain the right year would be greatly appreciated.
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What period?
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somewhere between 1914 and 1919. The Birth Extract entry shows 1919 but I think this was changed. The mother died in February, 1919 so it was before this date - she didn't die in childbirth. Also the father was a soldier in WW1 I think it is 1914 just need proof
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The certificate also gives the date the birth was registered. Is that clear?
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According to SP there were only two births in Glasgow Govan in 1910-19
COPLAND WILLIAM M 1914 644/21 2105 Govan
COPLAND WILLIAM M 1918 644/16 617 Govanhill
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Just thinking out loud here, but as the birth was December 1918, it looks as if it may have been registered in January 1919 but perhaps, as often happens at the beginning of the year, the Registrar wrote 1918 instead of 1919 and had to change it?
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Hi GR2,
Yes the Botton of the extract records ....."for the district o Govan in the County of Lanark this 23rd day of December, 1919." (It looks like the 9 in 1919 has been changed and that is what I am trying to work out.
Thanks for your help
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The column for "When and where registered and signature of registrar" reads 1919 December 23r at Glasgow (signed) F.B.Crawford, Registrar)
(I think all the 1919s have been changed. The 191 is in printed form as is the rest of the certificate whereas the last 9 is in typing.
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Hi buckhyne,
Thanks for the two names and birth dates. Are you able to see the other information on the birth certificate? My research is for a William Copland born on the 14th December ???? Father James Dargavel Copland. mother Margaret Halbert. I still think the 1914 one might be the right one.
Thanks for your help.
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Have you found a baptism? Do you know what year his parents married? What age does he give on a marriage certificate?
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Hi Carolineasb, Thanks for your suggestions. I still think the date should be 1914 - it's just how to prove it - that is my problem.
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Ah, I see from SP free index that James & Margaret married in 1914 - actually the date should be on William's birth certificate.
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Govanhill is not in the same area as Govan. Also the reg number for the 1914 birth ( i.e. 2105) suggests a birth registered late in the year.
Isobel
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Hi Josey, No I haven't found a baptism. I suspect if baptised it would have been in the Free Kirk.
The parents were married 18th August, 1914. I haven't been able to find a marriage certificate yet but I know he was married on 29th October, 1939.
So, yes I know that they married in August, 1914.....at present I guessing that the son William was born 14th December, 1914 - 4 months later. It may be that a family member has changed the date on the birth extract - maybe to make it look like he was born a legitimate or maybe to make him look younger to avoid war or whatever!?!?!?
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Hi isobelw, Thanks for the information. Just to get this straight - are you agreeing that the SP birth for William. Copland b. 1914 (born 14th December - later in the year) Govan is my man?
His home address was Elder Park Street, Govan, Glasgow.
I hadn't connected before that Govanhill and Govan were not the same area. thanks for that.
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According to SP there were only two births in Glasgow Govan in 1910-19
COPLAND WILLIAM M 1914 644/21 2105 Govan
COPLAND WILLIAM M 1918 644/16 617 Govanhill
I got them from the free index in ScotlandsPeople.
The obvious thing to do is to pay for the certificates to see who the parents were.
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There are several trees on A*try all showing the dob as 14/12/1914 in Govan
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To be sure, you really need to view the certificate at Scotlandspeople ( you can view 5 certificates for £7.00, so not expensive).
However there is no William Copland birth recorded in the indices for 1919 for Govan, which might suggest the certificate you have has been doctored.
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Do you have father James' army record or pension record? Sometimes they have details of wife, children with dates of birth....
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I haven't been able to find a marriage certificate yet
COPLAND JAMES DARGAVEL
HALBERT MARGARET
1914 644/21 282 Govan
The certificate can be seen on SP for 6 credits.
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I have looked at the SP entry! The date of birth is 14/12/1914 at 14 Elder Park Street, Govan, for William Copland with parents, James Dargavel Copland , a Butcher's Salesman, and Margaret Copland nee Halbert (married Govan 18/8/1914).
I thought that the OP meant that the SP entry had amendments but it would appear that someone has "amended" an actual Extract Birth Certificate :( as there are no amendments to the dates on SP!
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I thought that the OP meant that the SP entry had amendments
Argghhh...so did I ::). Yet another occasion of proof that you HAVE to look at the original documents, and sometimes HAVE to pay for them. You must have spent some credits looking at that...
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Hi Josey, No I don't have father James' military record. I believe that his records were lost in the WW2 bombing. Only have his medal record. Thanks for your help
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Thanks Carolineasb for your input. much appreciate, very helpful