RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: searchingforfoxalls on Friday 01 September 17 11:31 BST (UK)
-
Hi,
I have a photo of one of my ancestors and I'd love to know what kind of uniform he is wearing, his rank or anything else that can be gleaned. Any ideas and information gratefully received. His dates are 1812-1870 and he looks to be an older man by the time of the photo. His occupation was a chainmaker, but clearly he served in some capacity.
Many thanks for any help!
-
Welcome to RootsChat! ;D
The helmet is a Pickelhaube type.
Could be Army (British Home Service Helmet), but equally could be Police of Fire Service?
This is a British Army example:
http://www.cameronians.siteiscentral.com/glossary/home-services-helmet
Not your chap's regiment, but similar.
-
I don't know what the uniform is, but someone who does will be along sooner rather than later. What I can tell you is that it is later than 1878. That's when the British version of the pickelhaube was first issued.
-
.............................................but equally could be Police or Fire Service?
Probably not because of the sword?
-
He is a Rifle Volunteer or Volunteer Battalion. Think pre-Territorial Army.
The shoulder title has the V for volunteer. The Austrian Knot cuff braid also shows that he is a volunteer and not a Regular soldier.
-
That's great, thanks so much! Looks like I need to check my dates though? This uniform definitely post 1870?
-
The helmet only came in to use in the British Army in 1878. As he is a volunteer then it may have been some years after that that the volunteers started to wear them. I suspect that the V title makes it after 1881.
-
Oh yes, he's from 1880's or 1890's. 1870 to 1878, they wore silly little hats. If you Google British infantry 1870 (images), you will see what they looked like.
-
Although I can't distinguish the ribbon stripes, the medal he is wearing looks like the Queens South Africa Medal.
-
Do you know which town or city where he might have lived? I have a book which lists all regiments and battalions therein and their progressions.
-
Good afternoon,
Probably post 1881, prior to that helmet plates had the regt'l no in the centre. Cut out of the centre disc it can be seen easily when present.
John915
-
Hi, would have lived around Merseyside/Liverpool. I'm thinking it might be the son of the ancestor I thought it was, due to the discrepancy in dates now....
-
Oh dear, Kings Liverpool Regiment, they had rather a lot of VB's. I don't think I can isolate the one we're looking for.
-
The centre of his helmet plate (badge) looks like the traditional heraldic rose used by both Yorkshire and Lancashire (in different colours of course!). Assuming that this Volunteer Battalion has a similar badge to its regular parent regiment, this would make him a member of the York and Lancaster Regiment. This only had two volunteer battalions, the 1st (Hallamshire) Volunteer Battalion based in Sheffield, and the 2nd Volunteer Battalion based around Rotherham, Doncaster, Barnsley. Both of these units did wear a very similar helmet plate to that seen here, with a rose as a central device. This gentleman, wearing a rank badge of 4 stripes and probably a crown, appears to be the battalion's sergeant major or possibly another senior non-commissioned member of the unit (note regular sergeant majors wore a different badge of just a crown in the same place).
The precise pattern of the cuff points to a date in the late-1890s, for reasons that are slightly difficult to describe (so I'm afraid I'm not going to try!). Unfortunately both the possible battalions wore similar uniforms, but as he would certainly have been one of the most notable individuals in his unit you may even get lucky and be able to pick him out in a group photo somewhere.
No Liverpool volunteer battalion wore white facings (collar and cuffs) with scarlet tunics, so I think you can abandon that idea.
Kind regards T