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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: zumaro on Monday 04 September 17 10:24 BST (UK)
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My 3x great grandparents are James Creagan (Creegan/Cregan) and Catherine Heaney (Hany/Haney/Heeney) - already you can see the research nightmare beginning. They were both born in Ireland, James around 1830 and Catherine around 1836, and married in London on 3 August 1857 (that certificate I have tracked down on ancestry.com). By 1858 their first daughter Margaret is born in Bacchus Marsh, Victoria, Australia (I can't find the birth record at all), but the next few children James, William, Mary and Catherine are all easy to find, with detailed birth certificates giving all sorts of consistent information.
After this the going gets tougher. An older relative of mine Geoff, researching the family pre-internet days, has James dying in New Zealand about 1867, another daughter Georgina being born on 4 October 1868 in Addison's Flat, Buller, and Catherine Heaney dying on 8 February 1925 in Westport. Geoff's work is really detailed and accurate (I am spending most of my time simply verifying his research), and I know that Georgina (Creagan, Stack then Gibson) really exists and was born in New Zealand, but I can't verify any of the details in this paragraph. No birth record for Georgina, no death records for Catherine Heaney or James Creagan, and this is searching both Australia and New Zealand sources.
When I ask questions here, rootschat members are brilliant at finding sources I never knew existed, and filling in details above and beyond the initial question (I always learn a lot about how to research), but these people really are elusive. I assume that my relative Geoff was also fooled by James Creagan's death, but he is really specific about the other information, giving dates and places, and I can't find sources at all. So my questions are, what sources can be found for Georgina's birth date, Catherine's death date, and what happened to James?
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Which of the CREAGAN / HEANEY children is your ancestor?
What BDM details do you have for this ancestor?
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Mary Josephine Creagan is my ancestor. I have her birth, marriage and death certificates. The birth certificate is 27 Dec 1862 in Bacchus Marsh, (Victoria BDM - Event registration number:179 Registration year:1863), and from that I got the fact that her parents were married in London.
She married Henry Sullivan in Reefton (NZ BDM 1877/2558), which is pretty young to be marrying, and died in Kerepehi in 1932 (NZ BDM 1932/2110). All the certificates are on my ancestry site. The marriage certificate is of no use, as it doesn't give any names for parents even (might have been useful to verify that James was deceased by then), and the death certificate gets names totally wrong.
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I am not sure what you are wanting to confirm.
Do the two marriage records, NZ, enable you to confirm Georgina to be a child of this family?.
Lack of birth record is hardly a problem...happened all the time.......
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I guess that the marriage record may do this - as Georgina is not my immediate relative, it is of more academic interest to verify her birth date, and I haven't bothered to pay the fee for this one! But the death dates of the other two are mysterious, and they are my direct relatives. By 1925 I would think that death records were carefully kept.
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BDM NZ marr
1877/2558 Mary CREGAN m. Henry SULLIVAN
Can you give all the details on this certificate...everything please.
Mother Catherine might have remarried...not died as CREGAN.
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They were both born in Ireland [...] Catherine around 1836
Catherine Heaney dying on 8 February 1925
Hello...
For what it's worth, a 1925 death would make Catherine 89 years old.
There is an 89 year old Catherine MULLIGAN who died on 8 Feb 1925
BDM NZ
1925/726 - MULLIGAN, Catherine - 89Y - d.o.d 8 Feb 1925
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Catherine MULLIGANS's probate file says that she is the mother of Margaret HEALY, Catherine HALL and (presumably) the above-mentioned Georgina GIBSON
Archives NZ
Catherine MULLIGAN - Westport
http://tinyurl.com/yator8a3 (http://tinyurl.com/yator8a3)
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what sources can be found for Georgina's birth date
As the family is from Ireland you might ask for a look-up on the Catholic Diocese of Christchurch baptism index CD. Some of the West Coast is covered. I think Buller/Reefton is included but don't quote me.
And if you've not seen it...
Death certificate for Georgina GIBSON
http://tinyurl.com/y9nqjycl (http://tinyurl.com/y9nqjycl)
Regards
Beg
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Mary is very young at marriage, 1877. Who gave permission for her to marry...who are the witnesses?
"...and the death certificate gets names totally wrong."
Can you list all the information, including the totally wrong information.......definitely include the totally wrong information please....everything...informant...burial details.......
If Catherine is around and lives to 1925 she will likely go to live with an adult daughter, and be buried in that town. So later lives, burial details of her children are important.
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Use familysearch.org to find Will for Catherine MULLIGAN d. 8 Feb 1925 Westport....names daughters Margaret HEALY, Catherine HALL and Georgina GIBSON.....
Margaret HEALY..."I was born in Victoria"
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Possibly -
BDM NZ marr
1875 / 358 CREGAN Catherine m. GREEN George
1885 / 1285 GREEN Catherine m. MULLIGAN John
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Sorry I just got home, and following your Mulligan lead, I came up with exactly the same Cregan-Green-Mulligan trail on the NZ BDM. The reason why the Mulligan name rang so true, is that my grandmother's marriage certificate lists her own grandparents as being her parents (to cover an illegitimate birth), and they are given as Harry Sullivan and Mary Josephine Mulligan.
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Mary Josephine's marriage certificate and death certificates
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Sorry those pictures came out rather large!
Some strange things remain - Georgina Gibson's death certificate is quite contrarily wrong in its names. Mary Josephine seems to be left out of Catherine Mulligan's will, though it seems clear now that she is the right person. Margaret Healy I can find no birth certificate for, even though all the other Victorian births are registered - I began to think she was born at sea. But for all the detail differences, this is beginning to look like a coherent picture, with lots of supporting details.
I wonder what happened to James Cregan then? He is described as a mariner, a labourer, a miner on documents, and presumably is Georgina's father as well.
By the way I am very impressed at how far you just got, while I have been floundering around for weeks. I am going to guess that Geoff had these details as he had the dates right, but they are not in the printouts I received about 15 years ago. Thanks for all of this, including documents I would never had found myself.
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Zumaro
It seems that Catherine CREAGAN (CREGAN) had two further marriages (in New Zealand).
Catherine CREGAN - George GREEN -- Year: 1875
Catherine GREEN - John MULLIGAN -- Year: 1885
On the Buller electoral rolls of 1896 and 1905-06, a Catherine MULLIGAN (domestic duities) is with John MULLIGAN (miner) residing at Mill Street, Westport.
Catherine MULLIGAN (married) is alone at Mill Street up to the 1919 e/roll.
~ Lu
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... oops ... sorry to repeat wivenhoe's post - NZ marriages - (hadn't seen it when I posted.
~ Lu
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Some initial difficulty in locating burials for Catherine MULLIGAN and her husband John ... (both were indexed on cemetery records as "MILLIGAN" . :D
Here they are at the Orowaiti Cemetery. A Martin William STACK shares the same plot.
http://public.bullerdc.govt.nz/cgi-bin/cemetery/ceep?key=007514
~ Lu
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Brief mention of the passing of John MULLIGAN - June 1911 :
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/GRA19110605.2.11
~ Lu
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Use familysearch.org to find Will for Catherine MULLIGAN d. 8 Feb 1925 Westport....names daughters Margaret HEALY, Catherine HALL and Georgina GIBSON.....
Margaret HEALY..."I was born in Victoria"
This information is already given in Beg's post -- Reply No. 6 ... along with a direct link to Catherine MULLIGAN's Probate record. ;)
~ Lu
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Halfway down column ... mention of Mrs CREGAN, Addison's Flat, (appearance in Magistrate's Court).
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WEST18690225.2.7
~ Lu
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... again, halfway down column .. "a woman named CREGAN ... " . Unknown if this is Catherine ?
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WEST18740908.2.8
~ Lu
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Thanks Lucy for even more information to flesh out a life - very cool indeed. It wouldn't surprise me if the court references are her - Georgina the last daughter I am told was born in 1868 at Addison's Flat, Buller.
I think Martin Stack was her son in law - Georgina Cregan's first husband. Remarkable you found this cemetery record as well. I see there are findagrave memorials too, although no pictures of headstones.
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Unique ID 3PUBL-PLOT-4423
Cemetery Name Shortland (Thames)
Cemetery ID 3
Area Code PUBL
Sub Area Code PLOT
Plot Number 4423
Plot Status Used
Capacity 2
Surname SULLIVAN
Forenames Mary Josephine
Full Name SULLIVAN, Mary Josephine
Gender Female
Age 72
Age Unit Years
Date Of Birth
Date Of Death
Date Of Burial 26/03/1932
Cheers Janette
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I think Martin Stack was her son in law - Georgina Cregan's first husband. Remarkable you found this cemetery record as well. I see there are findagrave memorials too, although no pictures of headstones.
Hi Zumaro
the Martin William STACK (died 1921 - aged 29 years) is in fact the son of Georgina and her first husband, Martoin STACK.
So Martin William STACK shares a plot with his grandmother, Catherine MULLIGAN.
I checked a resource (other than Find-a-grave) but unfortunately there doesn't appear to be headstones for these people.
~ Lu
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... oops ... can't correct error on previous post ... but line one should read
.... Georgina and her first husband, Martin (not Martoin) STACK. ;D
~ Lu
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In case it's of interest, Martin STACK (husband of Georgina) died in 1895.
Burial at Orowaiti Old Cemetery, West Coast.
http://public.bullerdc.govt.nz/cgi-bin/cemetery/ceep?key=009287
~ Lu
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Some strange things remain - Georgina Gibson's death certificate is quite contrarily wrong in its names.
I wonder what happened to James Cregan then? He is described as a mariner, a labourer, a miner on documents, and presumably is Georgina's father as well.
Hi Zumaro
Not altogether surprising that there are errors with "names" on the Death record of Georgina GIBSON. ;D
[Her parents names given as John MULLIGAN and Georgina MULLIGAN (no maiden surname) ... and her place of birth as "Westport".]
Her three sons had predeceased her ... and according to the documents in the application for Letters of Administration - Estate of Georgina GIBSON, only her daughter Alice RUSS (aged 40 ?) and 3 grandsons (sons I think, of John Thomas STACK ?) survived her.
Letters of Administration file for Georgina GIBSON :
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS92-YJT4?i=160&cc=1865481&cat=2278074
Death Certificate : Georgina GIBSON appears at Image # 164 :
The 1890 NZ Marriage record (printout) (CREGAN - STACK) should clarify who Georgina CREGAN
"considered" was her father.
~ Lu
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As the family is from Ireland you might ask for a look-up on the Catholic Diocese of Christchurch baptism index CD. Some of the West Coast is covered. I think Buller/Reefton is included but don't quote me.
Regards
Beg
Zumaro .. no need to request a look-up of this CD ;D ... I have already done so (using a variety of possible surnames / and spellings).
Unfortunately, no luck in finding a baptism for Georgina. :(
~ Lu
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Thanks Lucy again for the information and I guess the absence of information in the case of the lookup.
Funny how a seeming error in my grandmother's marriage certificate actually leads to the correct family history, but this error in the death certificate is probably just an error. The trouble with NZ certificates ordered from NZ BDM is they cost so much, so it is rarely I buy them unless its a direct ancestor. Compare with Scotlandspeople website, which is so cheap you can afford to shrug off errors, and investigate aunts and uncles if they interest you. So while I think a few well placed certificates might narrow down a few issues (like when did James Cregan die), its all too expensive!
Thanks for the Stacks too - I found practically the whole family on findagrave now that I look, but these cemetery records are far more useful.
Thanks Janette too for Mary Sullivan's record - again I had not found that, and it supplies information like the burial date that I didn't have.
I think we have the measure of Georgina and Catherine at this point! But James Cregan remains missing in action. If Georgina's birth certificate existed this might have told us whether he was dead or not by 1868. If Catherine Cregan is busy selling illegal liquor by 1869, I think its a fair bet he was gone by that stage.