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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: wilcoxon on Saturday 09 September 17 19:06 BST (UK)
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I have these baptisms form Family Search.
Baptism: 1 Jan 1827 St Peter, Liverpool, John Richard Litherland - [Child] of Richard Litherland & Frances Abode: May St. Occupation: Clockmaker
All these have the same abode and occupation
Baptism: 3 May 1829 St Peter, Liverpool,
John Rice Litherland - [Child] of Richard Litherland & Frances
Abode: Great Crosshall Street Occupation: Clock-maker
Baptism: 10 Jun 1830 St Peter, Liverpool,
Henrietta Litherland - [Child] of Richard Litherland & Frances
Baptism: 22 Oct 1833 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Hannah Litherland - [Child] of Richard Litherland & Frances
Then in 1837 I have Richard Orlando Litherland , son of Richard and Mary Anne.
Abode Gt Crosshall Street Occupation: Clock-maker.
Before this c 1836 is a daughter born in Shropshire to the same couple.
I have the marriage of Richard ( bc 1807) to Mary Ann in 1835 and there is no mention of him being a widower even though she is “spinster” , Was Richard the same man, the address is the same in the last 4 baptisms.
I can`t find any of the children born to Frances in the census or even burials , they are not with Richard and Mary Ann. I can`t find a death or even a marriage for Frances and Richard.
Can anyone help with this please.
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An on line tree on Ancestry has all the children dying young
John Rice 1829 - 1834
Henriette 1830 - 1831
Richard Archimedes 1832 - 1834
Hannah 1833 - 1835.
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Lancashire Parish Records on line
Richard Litherland and Frances father Clockmaker all baptism at St Peter Liverpool
John Richard bap 1 January 1827 of May Street -- buried 13 July 1828 age 18 months St Nicholas
John Rice bap 3 May 1829 Great Crosshall Street -- buried 7 September 1834 age 6 of fever, of Great Crosshall Street at Low Hill Cemetery
Henrietta bap 10 June 1830 Gt Crosshall Street -- buried 24 August 1831 age 15 months reason decline, of Trowbridge Street, same parents
Hannah bap 22 October 1833-- buried 29 December 1835 age 2 measles of Hodson Street.
Richard and Mary nee Astley/Ashley also Clockmaker
Adeline Belinda bap 27 September 1836 St Vincent Street East, she married John Smith 2 August 1858.
Richard Orlando bap 17 July 1838 Great Crosshall Street married Margaret Beattie 26 Nov. 1860
Note: There is an Archimedes Litherland 21 who married Kate Akitt age23 on1 January 1865 at St George Everton, father Richard Litherland Clockmaker
As you say the marriage does not say he is a widow, however it is possible it's the same man. Need to find a burial for Frances. I'm guessing that Great Crosshall Street was his work place and the addresses when the children died are his home.
His son Richard also becomes a clockmaker and Litherland/Leatherland surname is quite common although unusual.
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New GRO index
Richard Letherland registered 1837 Liverpool- mothers maiden name Ashley
Horace Byron Litherland reg. 1841 West Derby mmn Ashley
Archimedes Socrates Cicero Litherland reg. 1844 Liverpool mmn Ashley
Julian Coterbins Demosthenes Litherland reg. 1846 Liverpool mmn Ashley
Nathan Bruonfield Litherland reg. 1848 Liverpool mmn Ashley
Adeline Belinda born before civil registration began.
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Archimedes Socrates Cicero Litherland
Julian Coterbins Demosthenes Litherland
Poor children being given those names!
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A family tree on ancestry has Archimedes emigrating to Australia.
The youngest of the first four children Hannah dies 11 months, December 1835 after his possible second marriage January 1835, either Frances died in childbirth September-October 1833 or before 28 January 1835.
Clock making seems to be the family trade and with several families naming sons Richard it could be another generation. Have you tried trade directories for the area or did any leave wills probated locally?
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1829 Directory of Liverpool
Litherland, Ann watch maker 81 Brownlow Hill
Litherland, Davies & Co. watchmaker 70 Church Street
Litherland, Nathan merchant 5 Wolstenholme Square
Litherland, Peter Bromfield wine and porter merchant 4 Chapel Place, Moira Street
Litherland, Richard Clock & watchmaker 71 Great Crosshall Street.
I would say Richard who married 1835 is related to Nathan and Peter because he names a child Nathan Bromfield Litherland
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1822 Directory of Liverpool
Richard Litherland watch and clockmaker 62 Brownlow Street
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Thank you all so much, I had thought about children dying, but couldn`t find them. There is a lot to check out there.
Richard himself is a problem, an online tree and Lancs OPC has his parents as John Litherland and Eleanor Picton, but John is a and glazier. This doesn`t seem to fit but I can`t find another baptism. ???
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I would look for Nathan and Peter with a brother Richard.
I also saw an article that Peter Litherland had a patent for a type of
watch gear he had invented, early 1700's I think it was.
The Litherland Davies & Company on Church Street in a later directory
says they manufacture watch gears.
Somebody had to leave a will check the Lancashire Record Office, I've not found anything in PCC wills .
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Richard himself is a problem, an online tree and Lancs OPC has his parents as John Litherland and Eleanor Picton, but John is a and glazier. This doesn`t seem to fit but I can`t find another baptism. ???
Clocks and watches have glass.
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Richard himself is a problem, an online tree and Lancs OPC has his parents as John Litherland and Eleanor Picton, but John is a and glazier. This doesn`t seem to fit but I can`t find another baptism. ???
Clocks and watches have glass.
In this case I think it`s windows. Thanks for the input though.
Marriage: 13 Apr 1801 St Anne Richmond, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
John Litherland - Plumber & Glazier, the Parish of Liverpool
Eleanor Pickton - (X), Widow, the same Parish
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Wilcoxon
This won't add anything to your search. However, my ancestor, Thomas Sudlow, had been involved with Litherland Davis (Davies?) before its wind up in 1829. There doesn't seem to have been a Ltherland involved at that point.
When I looked into this some years ago it became apparent that Peter Litherland was from Warrington and was a prominent freemason. They may be areas you could look into.
Regards
Suds
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Well, after searching till my eyes popped out I am no further on with this After looking at the burials of the children , most records at St Peter I would have thought if any where she would be in there.
I didn`t find any wills, only one administration document .
The freemason link gave some good results from Christian Litherland who married James Broadhurst.
Where did you find the freemason link to Peter Litherland
http://www.mqmagazine.co.uk/issue-13/p-34.php
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Wilcoxon
I’ve tried to go back over my previous searches but haven’t been able to find the direct Masonic connection. Perhaps I just had the recollection that Peter Litherland’s sister marries a prominent mason. I’m sorry if I misled you.
There’s a general history of the Masonic rebellion here:
http://www.knightstemplar.org/KnightTemplar/articles/liverpool.htm
Unfortunately it doesn’t mention Peter Litherland although it does mention his brother in law James Broadhurst.
Regards
Suds
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Wilcoxon
A bit more information about Peter Litherland,
On the north side, opposite the church, stands the establishment of Messrs. Roskell and Co., watch manufacturers. The history of the watch trade in Liverpool is not devoid of interest, as being one of the few manufactures which have been carried on with success. It is said that there are only three places in the United Kingdom where watches are actually made, viz. London, Liverpool, and Coventry. I have alluded, in Chapter V., to John Wyke, who was one of the first to introduce the manufacture into the town. John Wyke died in 1787. William Tarleton is said to have been the first person who brought the Liverpool made watches into high repute. In the Directory of 1766 he is found in Bixteth Street. Before 1781 he had removed to No. 8 Church Street, then recently built. The neighbouring Tarleton Street in all probability derives its name from this source. In 1803 he was succeeded by Robert Roskell, who had previously carried on business in Byrom Street, and had married Tarleton's daughter. On the same premises the business has been carried on by successive generations of the same family to the present time.
The Right Rev. Dr. Roskell, R.C. Bishop of Nottingham, was a descendant of Robert Roskell.
Another well known name in the same manufacture, Peter Litherland, the inventor of the lever watch, was long connected with Church Street. In 1796 we first find him in Mount Pleasant, about which time a circular was issued by Litherland, Whiteside, and Banning, calling public attention to their improvements. They then removed to Ranelagh Street, and in 1810 to Church Street, the firm being subsequently changed to Litherland, Davies, and Co.
About 1837 they removed to Bold Street, where they still remain.
From:
MEMORIALS OF LIVERPOOL HISTORICAL AND TOPOGRAPHICAL INCLUDING A HISTORY OF THE DOCK ESTATE BY J.A.PICTON,F.S.A. SECOND EDITION, REVISED, WITH ADDITIONS IN TWO VOLUMES
VOL.II.
TOPOGRAPHICAL
LONDON:
LONGMANS,GREEN,& CO.
LIVERPOOL:G.G. WALMSLEY 1875
Regards
Suds
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After nearly 4 months I have found much more information on this family - but still not found Frances.
She is a complete mystery. She must be there somewhere but is hiding from us all. ???
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I am also looking into this family, i don't think Peter the watchmaker is one of them? I can't find anything that connects him to the others and i think if he had Bromfield in his name that would be on his wiki page. Looks like a few of them moved to london