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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Lydart on Wednesday 13 September 17 20:03 BST (UK)

Title: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Lydart on Wednesday 13 September 17 20:03 BST (UK)
Trying to find out why an apparently healthy uncle wasn't called up to fight in WW2.    He'd have been 28 ...

This is what it gives as his occupation ....
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: conahy calling on Wednesday 13 September 17 20:10 BST (UK)
Food can  ...   ...
Supervisor and engineering clerk
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: groom on Wednesday 13 September 17 20:22 BST (UK)
I agree - it's that middle word that doesn't make any sense.

Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Lydart on Wednesday 13 September 17 20:23 BST (UK)
Food can  ...   ...
Supervisor and engineering clerk

That's the easy bit !     How about the rest ?? 
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: groom on Wednesday 13 September 17 20:26 BST (UK)
Looks like: albollral ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 13 September 17 20:28 BST (UK)
Material Layout  ???
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Colin Cruddace on Wednesday 13 September 17 20:30 BST (UK)
Was About to post 'Food bar material layout...' and Gadget seems to agree. With part of it anyway

Colin
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 13 September 17 20:32 BST (UK)
Have you got a b and a c  to compare the letters with, Lydart
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: groom on Wednesday 13 September 17 20:36 BST (UK)
Yes, I think you are right, I can see bar and Material now as there is an i in the word. What on earth is that though and how does it fit with engineering clerk?

The first letter of what could be bar isn't quite the same as the capital C of clerk.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Raybistre on Wednesday 13 September 17 20:42 BST (UK)
Doesn't really convince me but how about Ford Cars Material Layout?

Ray
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: sugarbakers on Wednesday 13 September 17 20:48 BST (UK)
Food can material layout supervisor ... he who works out how to get the maximum number of cans from a roll of tinplate ... maybe  :)
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: conahy calling on Wednesday 13 September 17 21:00 BST (UK)
Was there a canning industry at or near his location?
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Greensleeves on Wednesday 13 September 17 21:10 BST (UK)
I'm inclined to agree with the food can material etc, but would like to see if there was actually such a trade and if so, whether our chap could have been practising it wherever he was living at the time.  Do we know where he was living?
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Lydart on Wednesday 13 September 17 21:19 BST (UK)
YES !      I've been crawling around in my loft to try and find old family papers .... I find that after the war he was working in the Metal Box Company (I think somewhere in west London) so IF he was working there before and during the war, then we are getting near to an explanation.

He may well have been making tin cans for soldiers baked beans !    Hence a reserved occupation.

Thank you for all the suggestions .... I think we have got there.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Greensleeves on Wednesday 13 September 17 21:27 BST (UK)
Food production and preservation was very important during WW2 since we were heavily reliant on imported food,  and the Atlantic convoys were a precarious method of getting food to the country and thence to the troops.  So it does seem realistic that those who were working in the canning industry would be regarded as being in reserved occupations.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Lydart on Wednesday 13 September 17 21:37 BST (UK)
and I found this online ......

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Metal_Box_Co

If you scroll down, you'll see that after 1935 it says they were making stuff for the war .... which could have included "many different types of food packing including 5000 million cans"
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: stanmapstone on Wednesday 13 September 17 21:44 BST (UK)
You can download the 'Schedule of Reserved Occupations (Provisional)' 1939 at http://anguline.co.uk/Free/Reserved.pdf

Stan
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 13 September 17 22:11 BST (UK)
YES !      I've been crawling around in my loft to try and find old family papers ....
He may well have been making tin cans for soldiers baked beans !

making stuff for the war .... which could have included "many different types of food packing including 5000 million cans"

 ;D  ;D I hope you don't have grazed knees Lydart & I'm sure your next tin of beans will taste so much better  :P

I bought beans not too long ago & the tin was very thin & very flexible unlike a normal tin i.e. will soon be a thing of the past!  ::)

Annie
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: josey on Wednesday 13 September 17 22:58 BST (UK)
My father [originally a lathe operator/auto setter] was in a reserved occupation in the war; he travelled round factories converting various manufacturing machines to armaments. He mentioned working at The Metal Box Company. 
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: craggagh on Sunday 22 October 17 21:09 BST (UK)
Hello -

Could the first two words be 'Ford Cars'?

craggagh.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Preach55 on Friday 10 November 17 16:56 GMT (UK)
Looks like the bottom line reads (Supervisor & Enquiry Clerk)  Hope this helps in some way  :)
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: David Boulding on Monday 13 November 17 18:27 GMT (UK)
Food Cans Material layout
supervisor and engineering clerk
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Geni Black on Wednesday 15 November 17 03:32 GMT (UK)
This is what I think it says:

Supervisor -
Food ban allowance layouts

Supervisor and Engineering Clerk.

You have to know that there was rationing of food, clothing etc. during the war.  I think the person involved was in a government administrative position in which he had to organise/set-up rationing - perhaps on a large scale. 

They couldn't allow everyone to go to war - someone had to keep the ship afloat back home - and for that reason they were exempted from signing up. They were needed on the home front!

I know of the rationing because I remember my Mum (who got married during the war years) telling me that she only had so many ration coupons for her wedding outfit so chose a lovely suit rather than the traditional white dress.

I could be totally off the wall here  - but that's what popped into my head when I saw it.  I also remember learning to make my small b's in a similar manner as that in the ban when I was a child in school.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: barryd on Wednesday 15 November 17 05:01 GMT (UK)
It looks like Ford Car to me. Was he living in Dagenham?
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Lydart on Wednesday 15 November 17 09:11 GMT (UK)
He lived in the Perivale/Greenford area of W. London.

I'm happy that this is now solved .... the planning of food cans seems the most logical.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Linda Stocker on Friday 17 November 17 14:55 GMT (UK)
I can only make out supervisor on the top and engineer on the bottom line
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: [Ray] on Friday 17 November 17 16:19 GMT (UK)


Heinz, Hayes Park, Hayes, UB4 8AL
a factory is still just up the road.

So for me it is Food Can . . . . . Ford Car, what was I thinking?

Ray
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Gadget on Friday 17 November 17 16:31 GMT (UK)
We seem to be going around in circles.

Could I suggest the first page is re- read and reply #9  and other replies on 13th September  ~

Food Can Material Layout supervisor and engineering clerk


 ;D ;D ;D


Also:

He lived in the Perivale/Greenford area of W. London.

I'm happy that this is now solved .... the planning of food cans seems the most logical.


Think it resurfaces because it comes up as a highlighted snip on the Forum page
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Rena on Friday 17 November 17 18:05 GMT (UK)
Food Cans Material layout
supervisor and engineering clerk

I worked in an engineering company in the 1950s when metals were still rationed and the government of the day would have to allocate what raw materials went to what rolling mill and which industry got the finished metals.  As a supervisor, he would have had to have made regular records of quantities & weights of sheets received, used and discarded as scrap.   All those records, along with similar ones on the Factory Shop Floor would have been collated and sent to somebody like me in the Office who filled in an official government form which would be sent off to the Ministry of Works.

One year, there was a bit of a flap at the heavy engineering company I worked for.  We'd moved into new premises and when the figures were totted up at the end of the year there was a hefty tonnage of missing metal. Numbers were crunched again and it was deemed that scrappage tonnage sold didn't equate to what had been scrapped in the factory.  It took a few days to realise that the scrap metal merchant hadn't been "light fingered", but that the scrap metal had been heaped on earth and the missing tonnage had sunk below ground level.   ::)
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: flownthenest on Thursday 23 November 17 22:32 GMT (UK)
Trying to find out why an apparently healthy uncle wasn't called up to fight in WW2.    He'd have been 28 ...

This is what it gives as his occupation ....Food Can ......... Layout supervisor and enquiry clerk
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: bobalong on Friday 24 November 17 14:23 GMT (UK)
I reckon that the missing word is "transport".

....................................transport supervisor and engineering clerk.
Not convinced about the first bit.

Bob
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: bobalong on Saturday 25 November 17 08:56 GMT (UK)
Knowing he was in a reserved occupation and being jogged by Rena'a comment I have tried to join the (wide spaced!) dots.
How about the first word being foud, being taken as an abbreviation for foundry. To link that to material you get "raw". So I get:

"Foundry raw material transport supervisor and engineering clerk."

Are there foundrymen in the same area area and did metal box have a foundry or was it all sheet metal?

Bob
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: bobalong on Saturday 25 November 17 09:01 GMT (UK)
But then again. From:
https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Metal_Box_Co

WWII Made many things for war service including 140 million metal parts for respirators, 200 million items for precautions against gas attacks, 410 million machine gun belt clips, 1.5 million assembled units for anti-aircraft defence, mines, grenades, bomb tail fins, jerrican closures and water sterilisation kits, many different types of food packing including 5000 million cans, as well as operating agency factories for the government making gliders, production of fuses and repair of aero engines[4]

Metal Box was a big company so London may not have made these but Metal Box did make a lot of cans.

Bob
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: JenB on Saturday 25 November 17 09:08 GMT (UK)
Metal Box did make a lot of cans.

That's why most of us are satisfied with what the original poster has accepted as the correct transcription (given that the person in question worked for Metal Box)  :)
 Food Can Material Layout supervisor and engineering clerk
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Rena on Saturday 25 November 17 12:08 GMT (UK)
But then again. From:
https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Metal_Box_Co

WWII Made many things for war service including 140 million metal parts for respirators, 200 million items for precautions against gas attacks, 410 million machine gun belt clips, 1.5 million assembled units for anti-aircraft defence, mines, grenades, bomb tail fins, jerrican closures and water sterilisation kits, many different types of food packing including 5000 million cans, as well as operating agency factories for the government making gliders, production of fuses and repair of aero engines[4]

Metal Box was a big company so London may not have made these but Metal Box did make a lot of cans.

Bob

There was a Metal Box company in Hull, Yorkshire, where I was born
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Zoe Ansell on Wednesday 06 December 17 04:34 GMT (UK)
It's not Food Can Material Layout, it's Food Can Allowance Targ__er (targeter?) and engineering clerk.
That would logically have been a restricted job as he probably worked on rationing for Ministry of Food. The engineering bit would have referred to tinning and manufacture as tin was in short supply.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: chrissyalone on Monday 25 December 17 13:58 GMT (UK)
food ban 
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: dublin1850 on Monday 25 December 17 16:40 GMT (UK)
I suggest writing to whatever the relevant British government department is. They will tell you for sure.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: nanny jan on Monday 25 December 17 17:55 GMT (UK)
We seem to be going around in circles.

Could I suggest the first page is re- read and reply #9  and other replies on 13th September  ~

Food Can Material Layout supervisor and engineering clerk


 ;D ;D ;D


Also:

He lived in the Perivale/Greenford area of W. London.

I'm happy that this is now solved .... the planning of food cans seems the most logical.


Think it resurfaces because it comes up as a highlighted snip on the Forum page


Excellent suggestion from Gadget in November.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: ercall on Tuesday 26 December 17 08:43 GMT (UK)
.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Ciny on Friday 02 February 18 18:39 GMT (UK)
Food 'Van'or 'Barn' Material Layout Supervisor and Engineering Clerk .........perhaps?
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: CarolA3 on Saturday 03 February 18 05:10 GMT (UK)
Lydart, I only saw this thread after it was solved.  May I suggest that you lock it now as any further suggestions will be redundant.

Carol
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Saturday 03 February 18 09:10 GMT (UK)
Streached

Malky
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: CarolA3 on Saturday 03 February 18 09:39 GMT (UK)
I'm happy that this is now solved ....

It's been solved - Lydart has marked it as completed - enough!
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: groom on Saturday 03 February 18 10:12 GMT (UK)
Lydart, I only saw this thread after it was solved.  May I suggest that you lock it now as any further suggestions will be redundant.

Carol

I donít think that is possible, only a Mod can lock a thread. Perhaps Lydart needs to ask them to change the title to show it has been solved?
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: CarolA3 on Saturday 03 February 18 14:29 GMT (UK)
Lydart's already added the 'green tick' to show it's completed :) 

I thought the original poster could always lock their own thread though - they seem to do it on the ToT board :-\

Carol
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: groom on Saturday 03 February 18 14:46 GMT (UK)
Yes, you can on the ToT boards but not on the others.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: CarolA3 on Saturday 03 February 18 14:52 GMT (UK)
Thanks Jan, I wasn't aware of that :)
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Kevin Jolly on Friday 23 March 18 21:36 GMT (UK)
Lydart

A while ago you asked for help regarding an uncle's (?) occupation, recorded in 1939. Best guess was that he was a Food Can Material Layout Supervisor and Engineering Clerk.  The troubling word is not "Material" but "Molinal". This is a rare word, and it means "of the mill". Derived from Latin, it exists more or less in the French word "moulin". Your relative was a "Food Can Molinal Layout Supervisor.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Maiden Stone on Saturday 24 March 18 02:31 GMT (UK)
Hello, Kevin. Welcome to RootsChat.
I see that you are trying to attract the attention of Lydart, regarding an old enquiry. Presumably you can't recall title of the thread on which the question was posted.
If that's the case, I reckon you have 3 options.
1.  Hope Lydart has email alerts to this thread or returns to it regularly. (Neither is certain.)
2. Click on Lydart's profile then click on "Posts" to see if you can spot the thread. I've just done that. There are 800+ pages of posts, so it would be a long search.
3. Make 2 more posts, then you can use the private message facility to contact Lydart.
Can someone else say whether 2 more posts on this thread, which is an "Off Topic" board will count towards Kevin's total to enable him to use PM facility?   :-\

The thread you've landed on has nothing to do with family history. See Reply #180 from Romilly at top of this page, in reply to David, another lost newcomer. You've wandered into the fictional village of Ambridge. The only families we talk about on here are the Archer family, their relatives, friends & neighbours.
If posts on here count towards your total,  you could simply reply to my post to increase your tally.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Kevin Jolly on Saturday 24 March 18 05:28 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the information.

I spotted Lydart's original thread. Lydart closed this topic a little while back, so I thought I'd try something current, even though not on topic. I'll give Lydart one more go.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: nanny jan on Saturday 24 March 18 06:28 GMT (UK)
Maiden Stone and Kevin Jolly; posts on this board do not add to the "post count".
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Maiden Stone on Saturday 24 March 18 07:25 GMT (UK)
Maiden Stone and Kevin Jolly; posts on this board do not add to the "post count".

Thanks for clarification.
So, Kevin, you'll need to contribute to a thread/threads on the main forum to increase your tally. Then you can PM Lydart.
Unless you want to stay in Ambridge and diss the characters and storylines 
while waiting for Lydart to show up.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: nanny jan on Saturday 24 March 18 09:00 GMT (UK)
Have sent Lydart a PM regarding Kevin Jolly's post.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Kevin Jolly on Saturday 24 March 18 10:28 GMT (UK)
Thanks to all who have replied. Please let Maiden Stone know that I'm not interested in thread counts.
I live in Adelaide, South Australia, and I read French News every day because I have a PhD in French history and I like to stay in touch. I chanced upon an unrelated link (rootschat) in which Lydart was trying to decipher a strange word in her ancestor's job description. When Lydart finished her -whatever it is you call it- she was satisfied with an explanation - deciphering- that was clearly incorrect. I simply tried to help.

I'm not interested in your larger conversation. I just tried to help someone with a translation problem. Maiden Stone seems to have not appreciated what I was trying to do. I have no interest in whatever Maiden Stone is doing and Maiden Stone has certainly not inspired me to take an interest. Best wishes to all of you.
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Saturday 24 March 18 13:19 GMT (UK)
Thanks to all who have replied. Please let Maiden Stone know that I'm not interested in thread counts.
I live in Adelaide, South Australia, and I read French News every day because I have a PhD in French history and I like to stay in touch. I chanced upon an unrelated link (rootschat) in which Lydart was trying to decipher a strange word in her ancestor's job description. When Lydart finished her -whatever it is you call it- she was satisfied with an explanation - deciphering- that was clearly incorrect. I simply tried to help.

I'm not interested in your larger conversation. I just tried to help someone with a translation problem. Maiden Stone seems to have not appreciated what I was trying to do. I have no interest in whatever Maiden Stone is doing and Maiden Stone has certainly not inspired me to take an interest. Best wishes to all of you.

You misunderstand Maiden Stone's attempt to help you make contact with Lydart. To be able to use the private message system, you need to have made at least three posts in a relevant forum. MS was letting you know that posts in this "Off Topic" forum don't count towards that total.

I will  PM Lydart for you and let her know that you are trying to make contact.

Best wishes

Mike
Title: Re: Can anyone read this occupation please, from the 1939
Post by: Maiden Stone on Saturday 24 March 18 14:08 GMT (UK)
Have sent Lydart a PM regarding Kevin Jolly's post.

That's sensible. Why didn't I think of that? Because I'm not sensible? This is not the sensible board.  ;D

Thank-you,  Mike for explaining my attempts at explanation.  :)
A couple of months ago I helped a newcomer by explaining how to use the personal message system. The person had made several posts trying to attract the attention of another poster, to no avail.

Moderator comment: topics merged.