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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: hettyhen on Friday 15 September 17 02:57 BST (UK)
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Have tried to find this families Immigration details but have had no luck and would appreciate some help. Sometime between 1884 & 1888. Living in Wellington.
LAWLESS Thomas & Catherine c1840, both born Ireland. Children Catherine Elizabeth c1868, Helena/Lena c1877, John Francis c1878, Thomas c1883, all born Liverpool England.
On death cert Thomas Snr 1914 in NZ 30 years =1884. Thomas Jnr Military record 1922 entry, in NZ 35 years=1887. Catherine Snr obituary says she arrived 1884. Thomas appears to have become a Prison Guard in May 1885 and was committed to Porirua Mental hospital in Dec 1885 where he died in 1914. His death cert has occupation Prison Warder
There is another LAWLESS family of Thomas & Catherine living in Thames/Te Aroha area with children on NZBDM born from 1876 but not the same family.
Thanks
HeatherR.
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Daughter Helena/Lena.
Marriage:
1908/3604 Elena Lawless Alexander Simpson
Death:
1968/42266 Simpson Elena 91Y
As she lived to a great age there may be an obituary for her....
Added:Cemetery details & headstone photograph:
https://wellington.govt.nz/services/community-and-culture/cemeteries/cemeteries-search/details?id=66114&serviceType=Burial&previousPage=%2fservices%2fcommunity-and-culture%2fcemeteries%2fcemeteries-search%2fresults%3fserviceType%3dAll%26firstNames%3delena%26lastName%3dsimpson%26fromDate%3d01%252f01%252f1840%26toDate%3d15%252f09%252f2017%26cemetery%3dAll
Minniehaha.
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Not part of the brief and you may already have this?
Death of John Francis in West Africa...
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19191022.2.5?query=catherine%20lawless
Minniehaha.
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They could have come via Australia ??? ??? ???
Have you checked passenger lists (if available) from across the ditch?
Dawn M
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Hi Heather,
Have you tried climbing up a branch of the family tree in order to make contact with descendants? Someone in the family may have knowledge handed down through the generations as to the name of the ship.
Marriage:
1889/3527 Catherine Elizabeth Lawless William Samuel Ridlen
Death:
1950/31993 Ridler Catherine Elizabeth 82Y
Cemetery details with headstone photograph:
https://wellington.govt.nz/services/community-and-culture/cemeteries/cemeteries-search/details?id=66113&serviceType=Burial&previousPage=%2fservices%2fcommunity-and-culture%2fcemeteries%2fcemeteries-search%2fresults%3fserviceType%3dAll%26lastName%3dridler%26fromDate%3d01%252f01%252f1840%26toDate%3d16%252f09%252f2017%26cemetery%3dAll
Obituary of William Samuel Ridler:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19380718.2.133?query=william%20samuel%20ridler
Minniehaha.
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Thank you for your replies,
Minniehaha, My auntie, born 1912 died 2010, was the contact with the family and she gradually lost track of the grandchildren of Thomas & Catherine, (children of William & Catherine RIDLER) as they all got older.
There is a Probate for John Francis LAWLESS, all 53 pages of it!, very interesting, some in French but translated as well, on Archives New Zealand, Probate Records, that come up on familysearch but can't seem to get the right link to post here.
Dawn M have tried but have had no success as yet, but will try again. Maybe even came via America so will have to visit the library to get more records.
Thanks
HeatherR
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Hi Heather......
Part quote:
"There is a Probate for John Francis LAWLESS, all 53 pages of it!, very interesting, some in French but translated as well, on Archives New Zealand, Probate Records, that come up on familysearch but can't seem to get the right link to post here."
Here is that link..... :)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G92R-CV1J?i=95&cc=1865481
Minniehaha.
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Hi Heather
I think the following is probably the LAWLESS family you seek ? [... oops LAWLESS by surname, that is . ;D ]
http://www.huttcity.govt.nz/Leisure--Culture/Museums-and-galleries/Our-museums/petone-settlers-data/DisplayPerson/?Id=156641&SearchString=l
This family arrived at Wellington on 20 November 1884 aboard the NZ Shipping Co's vessel, ss "Ruapehu" (departed Plymouth, England on 27 September.)
Although they are shown as "LAWLESS - Mr and Mrs E. and family" ... it seems likely the "E" is an error.
Unfortunately, there is no further information at the Petone Settler's database - for the LAWLESS family (nor for others known to have been on that same voyage.) [Possibly the information held by Petone, has come from a newspaper article ? ]
Whether there is a passenger / or immigration list available for this September-November journey which might give additional information, is as yet unknown. * [Further info in explanation, in a following post. ]
Passengers for Wellington (per s.s. "Ruapehu" ) :
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP18841111.2.4
... 3rd Cabin .. Mr and Mrs E. LAWLESS and family
~ Lu
see following >
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"RUAPEHU" (Ship) to Wellington - Year 1884
Archives New Zealand (Wellington office) have the following by way of passenger lists for 1884 :
https://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=4085918
However ... the New Zealand Shipping Company's vessel "Ruapehu" actually made three voyages to NZ in the year 1884. Firstly arriving in March ... next, in mid-July at Wellington ... and lastly, departing from Plymouth, UK, 27 September for Hobart, Port Chalmers, Lyttelton and finally arriving 20 November 1884 in Wellington.
Now, whether Archives NZ at Wellington have a passenger list for the September-November voyage is unknown (and yet to be explored). [There are secondary Archives NZ passenger list references for the two earlier voyages of the "Ruapehu" 1884. And given all the work done years ago in sourcing passenger records (before we had access to the images now provided at FamilySearch), I would have expected to be able to find something further for "Ruapehu" (Sept-Nov) ... and I haven't. :( ]
So, really not sure if a look-up at Archives NZ (Wellington) is worthwhile ??
~ Lu
see next >>
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If it were me, I'd be fairly happy with the records which indicate (independently) that Thomas (Snr) LAWLESS and Catherine, his wife, (obit. 1922) arrived in 1884. [That's "two outta three", isn't it ? ;)]
Just to explain (briefly) about NZ immigration, 1880's.
Your people appear to have arrived here at a time when the immigration scheme earlier in place (Vogel scheme), had broken down (due to the cost of subsidising passage fares for immigrants).
In 1882 the Government of the day re-instated the funding of the scheme for supposedly another 3 years. However, by 1884, most of the "immigrants" were of the "nominated" variety (rather than being of the "subsidised" kind.) And this factor ("nominated"), would explain why there probably isn't a passenger list record - given that most lists that exist, relate to those who arrived here having been wholly or partially subsidised under a government or other, immigration scheme.
* Do you know if the LAWLESS family had relatives who may have arrived in New Zealand ahead of them ??
Of course it needn't have necessarily been a relative who nominated someone - friends ... and even prospective employers could do so. [For some years there are "Nomination records" held by Archives New Zealand - haven't checked for the 1880's. ]
Thomas LAWLESS (bc 1840) born Co. Meath, Ireland, appears from the 1871 and 1881 UK census returns, to have operated as a "beer and wine retailer" and (1881) "a wholesale and retail beer* dealer". [One transcription has "bar" dealer ? ;D ... think it should be "beer: though.]
There were servants in his household too. That suggests he probably had a few "spondoolicks" to his name and could afford to transport his family to the other side of the world ?? [He may have arrived here simply as a "fare- paying" passenger ... and there's probably no passenger list for that mode of arrival, either. ] ::)
~ Lu
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Just a few snippets (in case you don't have them ? ) relating to Thomas LAWLESS (at Wellington).
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP18850706.2.36.1
Thomas LAWLESS - Lessee of property in Wellington city... seeking erection of boundary fence.
July 1885
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP18851207.2.30.5
... On Saturday last ... a lunatic named LAWLESS ...
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZTIM18851207.2.7
... Thomas LAWLESS ...
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZTIM18851208.2.7
... committal of Thomas LAWLESS ... suffering from "religious mania" ...
~ Lu
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Minniehaha, thanks for the link, just couldn't get it to work, kept ending up on an ordinary google type search page.
Lu, yes that list for the "Ruapehu" seems to fit the family, (Meatloaf wasn't it?) so far can't think of anyone already here, but will have a poke around and see if anything pops up. After Thomas heads off to Porirua, Catherine, in 1887, was letting out rooms in Taranaki Street, then had a house to let there. In the early 1890's became a shopkeeper in Nairn St. There was an unmarried daughter of William & Catherine RIDLER still living in Nairn St. until her death in 1984.
So thank you for your help, will keep searching for the shipping record, will try the Hobart stop and see if anything turns up.
Have requested the Coroners report on the death of Thomas in 1914 which may hold some more clues, not sure what they normally cover.
HeatherR