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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Gloria Mann (Nee Blackford) on Monday 18 September 17 03:40 BST (UK)
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I'm looking for information about my grandmother Margaret Thomas Born 1912 -1996 in Coventry, Warwickshire. She married John (Jack) Blackford from Nuneaton area in 1926 and had children, Derek, Lionel, Margaret, John, Jean and James (Jimmy). I am trying to find family history, Mother, Father etc as have drawn a blank. I believe she was born in the Coundon area of Coventry. Any help would be appreciated.
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Hi and welcome to rootschat ;D
Births Sep 1912 Thomas Margaret Hodges Coventry 6d 1098
Marriages Dec 1926 Thomas Margaret Blackford Nuneaton 6d 1[2_]90
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Hi there, thanks for the welcome. I came upon this site and i hope I am using it correctly. I'm trying to find my Grandmother's maiden name as I'm stumped. Do you mean by what you answered me that Margaret Thomas was Hodges? Sorry to be a duffer.
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Iluleah found the records on the site freebmd.org.uk which is free and quite easy to use, but the results shouldn't be taken as gospel - you can use them to send for certificates, it shows you how. However the Blackford-Thomas marriage looks certain as it matches the details you have. There are a lot of births for Margaret Thomas but only one in or near Coventry around 1912, that one gives her mother's maiden name as Hodges.
Putting in the surname Thomas with mother's name Hodges gives possible siblings for Margaret in Coventry - Mary 1915 Annie 1916 and Jack 1918 - do these names mean anything to you? (The same technique using Blackford and Thomas gives the siblings you mention, but also an unrelated one in Kent, so that wasn't the only Blackford-Thomas marriage. We aren't allowed to post details of living people which these may be.)
You can find mother's maiden names for births before 1912 using the sitewww.gro.gov.uk which can also be used to order certs, but you have to be a member (free). I found Caroline 1907 Leonard 1908 and Dorothy 1910 in Coventry - are these familiar?
However looking for a marriage of a male Thomas to a female Hodges in Warwickshire around that time draws a blank. There are plenty of marriages elsewhere. One possibility is to look up Caroline Leonard and Dorothy on the 1911 census, but we are not permitted to do this for you. You could then see if their parents are the same as those given on Margaret's birth certificate, then you're away.
You could also look up members of this family on the 1939 pre-war register at FindMyPast - most people who are now deceased are shown. Again, this is something we aren't permitted to do for you.
Chris
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Hi and welcome to rootschat ;D
Births Sep 1912 Thomas Margaret Hodges Coventry 6d 1098
Marriages Dec 1926 Thomas Margaret Blackford Nuneaton 6d 1[2_]90
Welcome to Rootschat. My apologies for this BUT the above information would mean that Margaret was only 14 years old when she married John Blackford :o
1939 suggests she was born in 1908.
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Margaret's death registration (1996 North Warwickshire) gives her birthdate as 11 June 1912, but I agree that other information suggests she was in fact born on that day in 1908.
One possible birth: Margaret Thomas, Jun qtr 1908 King's Norton, mother's maiden name Jones.
Her parents may be George Herbert Thomas and Florence Maud Jones, married in Coventry in Mar qtr 1903. Update: not this couple; his Army records show that their Margaret was Margaret Amy, born in Coventry in 1906.
You will need to get Margaret's marriage certificate (for her father's details) to be sure you are following the right person/family.
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Sorry, I should have realised that my analysis is useless unless Margaret managed to deceive everyone and marry aged 14! However the techniques that could be used still apply. The King's Norton one's mother's maiden name of Jones is particularly unhelpful, and there are seven plain Margaret Thomases born that quarter alone, plus many more with middle names.
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Chris_49 From all the information I have is that my grandmother Margaret Thomas did indeed marry at 14 which I believe was legal in the 1920's. In 1929 they increased the age of marriage to 16. I know she had a sibling Jack who lived in Coventry, a Len married to Cis (or like), a Nancy and a Burt, the others don't ring a bell but I don't know much of her siblings. I believe she was born possibly in the Coundon area of Coventry. I will look into her marriage certificate but so far the Thomas family seem to be incognito. Thank you all on here for your guidance, I appreciate it.
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You mention a child of John and Margaret Blackford - Lionel.
There is a birth registration for Lionel F Blackford - Coventry - March quarter 1933 with mother's maiden name of Thomas.
This coincides again with the 1939 entry for Margaret, born 1908 and there is a Lionel F in the same household born 1933.
Added: Looking for a death registration for Lionel F = Lionel Frank - died November 2004 with birth date of 3 January 1933 (as in 1939)
John Blackford - died September 1973 with birth date of 9 December 1906 (as 1939 entry)
So that leavers Margaret with different years, but the same day and month :-\
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Yes, Lionel Frank is the only one we're allowed to mention as he's dead - but the redacted ones are in the right order too.
Margaret's YoB is clearly 1908 though and the smudged addition above looks nothing like a correction. Making herself a similar age to her husband? Only certificates will sort this out. Her last child was born 1950 but this doesn't rule out any birth year for her. However it may be significant that she seems to have conceived no children in the first 3 years of her marriage, despite having 6 after that - but she may have had miscarriages or unreported stillbirths.
From Warwickshire anecdote I hear that very young brides married not only because they were pregnant, obviously, as from time immemorial - but also because they had become (ahem!) very intimate, and the marriage was rushed to prevent any future scandal. I have one around this time and place where the bride was 16, but sadly they were unable to have any children at all.
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You guys are spot on with the son Lionel and John's dates and this is definitely my grandmother. My father Derek was the firstborn in 1930, he passed away in 2015. We always believed she married extremely young for love but who knows maybe it was because of (ahem) becoming intimate. I have a feeling though that although it might say 1908 that her she lied and it was actually 1912. I now have the problem of trying to find her parents and from what you say her mother was a Hodges. I will try and order a birth certificate from where you suggest and see if I can go from there with her parents.
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It might be better to order the marriage certificate first as that would hopefully give her father's name and occupation and at least some version of her age, as it should for everyone under 21. For instance if it says she's 18 that's probably correct, but if it says (say) 16 that could be cover for her being 14 which would be much frowned upon.
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It might be better to order the marriage certificate first as that would hopefully give her father's name and occupation and at least some version of her age, as it should for everyone under 21. For instance if it says she's 18 that's probably correct, but if it says (say) 16 that could be cover for her being 14 which would be much frowned upon.
Yes I agree with Chris, how would you know which birth cert to order,you may choose the wrong one ;D
Carol
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Just wondering about the correction - as the Register was updated for a number of years, could the alteration be to Margaret's status = widow and the year :-\
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Assuming I've found the correct entry in 1911, then John Blackford is the son of James and Frances. It is possible that this was James' second marriage.
John Blackford, registered March quarter 1907 in Nuneaton District - mother's maiden name is Hall
Marriage registered in Nuneaton District - September quarter 1902 - James Blackford and Frances Hall.
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Oh my goodness, it does get complicated doesn't it, you are all helping tremendously. I do know my Grandfather, John Blackford had half siblings so BumbleB is right when he says James Blackford's marriage to Francis Hall could possibly a second marriage. The older living members of my family do not know the names of their grandparents which did not help me at all. I will take Chris and Carol's advice and try and order the marriage cert first.
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Don't forget - only order your certificate direct from GRO = £9.25 including postage. Other sites may charge you more. You will have to register with GRO, but it is free.
Please let us know the outcome.
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Using an older child's details from 1911 - mother's maiden name is Launchbury
James Blackford and Jane Launchbury married March quarter 1881 - Foleshill District
Jane Blackford died June quarter 1896 - Foleshill District - aged 37
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Marriage entry at Bedworth - by Banns - February (no date given - possibly 15th) 1881 -
James Blackford (x), 22, bachelor, Labourer. Father: James, Labourer
Jane Launchbury, 22, spinster. Father: James, Labourer
Witnesses: Alfred Launchbury, Mary Benbow
Burial - 5 May 1896 - St Laurence, Foleshill
Jane Blackford of Grays Lane. Aged 37.
18 June 1896 - St Laurence, Foleshill
Albert Amos Blackford of Grays Lane. Aged 8
Image is available on Ancestry.
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1891 Census - RG12/2446 folio 145, page 26
Windmill Lane, Foleshill
James Blackford - 32 - Ag Lab
Jane - 31 - born Oxfordshire
Alfred J - 9
Harry - 7
Ernest W - 3
Albert G - 2
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Urmmhhh! Is Frances the third wife of James?
1901 - RG13/2901 folio 160 page 9
James Blackford - 42 - Carter on Farm
Mary A - 47
Harry - 17
Ernest W - 15
Margaret E - 8
Joseph - 6
George Taylor - 20 - stepson
Sarah A - 18
Samuel - 14
John - 8
Marriage - Nuneaton District - September quarter 1898
James Blackford and Mary Ann Taylor
Stockingford - 19 September 1898
James Blackford (x) 42 widower, Labourer. Father: James, deceased
Mary Ann Taylor, 45, widow. Father: George Courts, deceased
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Oh my, I really don't know how many times James was married. I do know that there is a branch of Blackfords we somehow connect with somewhere and both seem to be in roughly the same vicinity. It doesn't help that every generation has a James in it even to modern day. I feel like I have the right thread and then it starts going in all directions but your info is definitely helping, thank you so much, I appreciate your help very much.
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Chris_49 From all the information I have is that my grandmother Margaret Thomas did indeed marry at 14 which I believe was legal in the 1920's. In 1929 they increased the age of marriage to 16. I know she had a sibling Jack who lived in Coventry, a Len married to Cis (or like), a Nancy and a Burt, the others don't ring a bell but I don't know much of her siblings. I believe she was born possibly in the Coundon area of Coventry. I will look into her marriage certificate but so far the Thomas family seem to be incognito. Thank you all on here for your guidance, I appreciate it.
"Len married to Cis"
I wonder whether this is the Leonard Thomas (born 7 Aug in either 1908 or 1910 - it varies between records) who married Edith Cecilia Emily Clarke (born 12 Sep 1911) in Coventry in Mar qtr 1930.
It looks as though he may have worked in motor manufacturing - ring any bells?
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"Len married to Cis"
I wonder whether this is the Leonard Thomas (born 7 Aug in either 1908 or 1910 - it varies between records) who married Edith Cecilia Emily Clarke (born 12 Sep 1911) in Coventry in Mar qtr 1930.
It looks as though he may have worked in motor manufacturing - ring any bells?
Absolutely, that's awesome, he definitely was a brother to my Grandmother, Margaret Thomas. I was told he married a Cis so I presume that was a nickname. You guys are amazing.
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I know we're not allowed to post search results from the 1911 census, but I think this is permitted from Familysearch:
Leonard Thomas
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 26 August 1908 Coventry, Warwick, England
residence: Coventry, Warwick, England
father: William Thomas
mother: Elizabeth
Caroline Thomas
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 17 June 1907 Coventry, Warwick, England
residence: Coventry, Warwick, England
father: William Thomas
mother: Elizabeth
Caroline died as a baby, but both of these have the mother's maiden name Hodges per the GRO. No later baptisms, but if you know of an uncle Leonard, this does strongly imply that the 1912 Margaret is the right one. Later baptisms not found.
I think that they are also the parents of William 1903 and Edwin John 1904 both Worcester - but can I find their marriage? I can not!
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and there seems no obvious connection with the marriage of an older Wm Thomas to a Harriet Hodges in 1894 and their having 4 children in 1901 including a William - all in Worcester - but not seemingly being the parents of the later William and John Edwin
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Sorry, back to James Blackford and his wives:
Burial - Stockingford - 5 March, 1902 - Mary Ann Blackford of Stockingford, aged 48.
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I should point out that there is another Leonard Thomas born 1910 Coventry, but he is Leonard George registered June quarter and the marriage to Edith Cecilia was of a plain George. I found that a Leonard G married Catherine Glass in 1937 and a certain register 2 years later tends to confirm this. Other Leonards born in Warks around then mostly have middle names bar the 1914 one surely too young to marry in 1930.
No luck with finding an Elizabeth Hodges born around 1882 in Worcs except a servant 20 in Birmingham 1901 which tells us nothing. I can't connect her to the Harriet Hodges who wed a different Wm Thomas, but I only found her in 1871 and at her wedding in 1894 where her father is given Joseph, then as married on censuses. Connection is birthplace given as Clifton on Teme.
Finding William Thomas born Worcester 1873-ish is as you'd expect hopeless - none exact, lots approximate
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sorry duplicated
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Chris, from talking to a relative the Leonard Thomas you mentioned indeed worked in the car manufacturing and is the correct one. as far as I know there was a Len, Burt (not sure if Burt spelt correctly), Jack, Margaret and a Nancy who all lived in Coventry. So the name Thomas has to be correct.
BumbleB as far as my research has taken me I believe the Blackford line goes as follows:
John Blackford & Margaret Thomas - his father and mother were James 1859 and Frances Hall 1881 (she was considerably younger).
As you say James Blackford was married to Mary Ann Blackford and as you say she died 5th March 1902 at 48 which makes sense marrying then Frances.
The 3rd wife possiblity I'm still trying to get my head round that .
I know we have 2 sets of Blackfords in that area and I know we have to meet up with a common relative somewhere but still digging on that.
You guys are helping tremendously with your input and things are coming together. Many thanks
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You're welcome, Gloria.
Still looking for Elizabeth Hodges. In case anyone's thinking she's Elizabeth Hester (or Esther) Hodges, baptised St Martin's Worcester 1882, that one seems to have married William Alfred Cale at the same church in 1903 (same father with forenames reversed), they are on the next census as Cale and she seems born Tewkesbury per 1901 - so two Worcs-born Elizabeths that year, the other one found nowhere else at all.
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I can't find Burt or Bert anywhere - it doesn't help that it can be short for Albert, Herbert etc. He must have been born after 1911.
But I think Nancy started life as Annie b 1916. I found that she was married twice, first as Nancy to a man called William J Clarke in 1941, they had 3 sons, and then again as Annie in 1950 to a man I'd better not name as he was 10 years her junior and may still be alive, but his first name was Thomas if that helps - they had a daughter.
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You are amazing Chris,
I know we have a Nancy (Margaret's sister and therefore I presume a Thomas, who was indeed married to a Tom (probably Thomas and they had two daughters, a Sue and a Kath (I believe Kathleen). I believe he was some years her junior, he indeed looked it as I did meet them when I was a young girl. Nancy did have a son (Not Tom's) living with them by the name of Tony so it is quite likely she had others. Is it permissible on here to tell me where I might find their records? I probably should read over the rules again.
So far then: Nancy is Annie 1916, Jack 1918, Leonard Thomas (born 7 Aug in either 1908 or 1910 - it varies between records) who married Edith Cecilia Emily Clarke (born 12 Sep 1911) in Coventry in Mar qtr 1930 - I'm pretty sure this is Leonard but not Burt. Another possible sibling mentioned on here is Mary 1915 but I have no inkling re a Mary on my Grandmother (Margaret Thomas' side).
Just to note I applied to get a marriage certificate but stupidly put the wrong marriage year and don't know if they will find it. Have you had any dealings doing this and do I need to apply again or will they search? I imagine I need to do it again :(
Again, thank you so much, I have become totally obsessed with searching my ancestors now and you have definitely helped tremendously. I keep wondering whether to join Ancestry which may help more but so far things are going pretty well for free.
Bert or Burt (I always believed to be a Thomas) is a conundrum as I don't have much on him. I know he went to live in London and worked most of his adult life at Heathrow airport and he had a daughter
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No worries, Gloria
I don't know what happens when you make a mistake on a GRO cert request because I've never made one (touches wood!) but hopefully someone here will know. They charge a lot more if they have to do a search, but if you've got the name, district volume and page right it may be OK.
I found the Thomas family on the 1939 register which is available on FindMyPast but the only children there were Annie and Jack - the others were older and would have left home, two known to have married and found, but significantly no Bert. Annie was given two future married names, first Clarke and then that of the gentleman who may still be alive.
Then it was a case of trying to find those marriages on FreeBMD, especially as they were known to be local to Warwickshire and possibly Coventry, and then the children of those marriages using both surnames and leaving the birth blank.
I made too many assumptions when saying there were three sons of William Clarke and Nancy (Annie) Thomas because the surnames are too common, even if you limit the search to Coventry. However, the first birth matches the person you mention. I see now that the other two are rather close to Nancy's 2nd marriage so probably to another couple. It shows that you shouldn't get too carried away.
We're quite strict about not naming living people so I don't name Annie's 2nd husband, especially now as you've named his daughters (I think it's a fair assumption that William Clarke is dead). What's significant is that the marriage in 1950 in Coventry is for both Annie Clarke and Annie Thomas marrying the same man - of course the same person under both her names - but her children all have the mother's maiden name Thomas. I found the two you mention plus Jane 1958 who sadly died as a baby.
I think you'll need either Ancestry or FindMyPast soon enough unless they're available at your local library. Look out for free weekends, one month trials and special offers - Rootschat members usually post updates when these happen.
There are too many marriages for Jack Thomas and Mary Thomas so you'll have to ask relatives again. I'm pursuing a hunch on Bert, I'll post if I find anything.
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Bless you Chris,
You have been a tremendous help and have really helped in guiding me on the right course and also helped dispell incorrect findings. I imagine a lot of families are as confusing as ours but it doesn't help with my Grandmother (Margaret) fibbing about her age or the fact that people used other than their first names at times or carried a nickname. I think I will go ahead and order another marriage certificate for my grandmother and put the correct date this time, that seems to be the best way to find out for sure doesn't it. I'm not sure what personal information you can put on here but I am actually living in the States so try to converse periodically with the few relatives that are left there who are quite elderly and rather forgetful but with the help you have given me, I am determined to solve the mystery of did she or did she not marry at 14 and lie about her age.
I will be checking here as often as possible but am about to become a grandmother myself for the third time at any hour (I have 2 of them with me tonight as we had a false emergency this evening and I think a birth is imminent). I hope one day that they will enjoy the gift I am trying to leave them of who and where their family came from.
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I admit to no luck with Bert. My thought was that he might be a son of one of the older siblings, but Edwin John Thomas seems to have died 1912 Coventry aged 7, and no luck with William Thomas. Could he have been adopted? I suppose he's definitely not a Blackford.
There is another candidate for Elizabeth Hodges who may or may not have married William Thomas. That's Eliza Bosworth Hodges born 1880 Worcester, mother's maiden name Anthony (quite rare). I found that William Inkerman Hodges married Eliza Anthony early 1880 Worcester and following other Hodges-Anthony births gives William Frederick 1882 Worcester, Rachel 1884 Aston, John 1887 Birmingham where indeed they are (Laurence St) in 1891 - the wife is by then Sophia but Eliza Hodges 39 died there in 1888 and William Inkerman wed Sophia Williams (also b Worcester) 1890 Birmingham and she must be the mother of Albert Inkermann Hodges b 1891 Birmingham MMN Williams. In 1891 she is Eliza O Hodges and I can't make that to be a B any way I look at it - nothing like the enumerator's other Bs - but perhaps an error as all other children are correct. Significantly, she is not with the family in 1901 (all the other are) so she could well be that servant I mentioned.
All of the above proves little unless a marriage of Eliza Hodges and William Thomas can be found - so far nothing. Eliza Bosworth Hodges does however disappear off the face of the earth - no marriage or death found - so she may have dropped her middle name.
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Oh what a tangled web we weave...... Thanks Chris, I think I am going to have to wait for a couple of weeks and see what the marriage certificate of my grandmother Margaret and John actually says about her mother and father. It would seem to be the best way to confirm things. I remain in hope of finding them and settling the mystery.
Thank you for all your hard work.
Gloria
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Hi Gloria. The marriage cert should only give the father - plus his occupation, which helps, but if that points to the birth we expect, that cert will also give the mother.
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Hi. I am Sue daughter of Annie/Nancy and Tom. I found your post after checking a birth certificate amongst my late mothers papers. Her sister was Margaret Blackford and she had brothers Jack, Len and Bert.Thomas. I see you are looking for Margaret Thomas. Have you found details?
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Hi Sue,
Gloria who's your presumed relative and who was going to send for certs hasn't been online since late September. If she doesn't respond I'll try messaging her (you can't until you've made 3 posts)
Chris
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Thanks Chris. I only vaguely remember Gloria as I was very young when we met. She does have all the correct details though. We used to visit Margaret regularly and I always referred to her as Auntie Doll.
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Hi Sue, I've sent a private message to Gloria as she hasn't replied to your posts - probably not seen them.
Chris
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Thanks Chris. Gave me quite a surprise seeing all the details she has. i found Eliza Bosworth Hodges birth certificate amongst my mums papers. If Gloria does respond this could all be quite interesting. Sue.
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Hi Sue, I am Karen, Gloria's sister, I can remember you when you came to visit. Gloria is a bit preoccupied at present as she is in Belize awaiting the birth of a grandchild but will respond when she gets chance. We have done quite a lot of work on our family tree but are struggling a bit with the Thomas/Hodges side.
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Thanks Karen.
I think a crucial piece of evidence is Sue's mum's copy of Eliza Bosworth Hodges' birth certificate. That means it must be her - why else would she have it?
(Unless a family historian's mistake, we all have those, but if it's an older copy it must be right. My certs from my mum's papers are much more timeworn than any I've ordered, even ones I've had for years).
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Hi Karen. Really is a small world. Are you Dereck and Marys girls? If that is correct I also have some wedding photos of your Mum and Dad. Sue.
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Hi to Gloria, Sue and Karen
Assuming that Eliza really is Eliza Bosworth Hodges then we can find out quite a bit about her. She was registered Sept quarter 1880 Worcester, mother's maiden name Anthony (GRO), and we can find the marriage of William Inkerman Hodges to Eliza Anthony in Worcester in March quarter of the same year, (almost inevitably!) - FreeBMD. In 1881 we find them in Pitmarton Rd Worcester (RG11 2913) with Eliza given her full name and the helpful exact age of 7 months. William, Baker, has been transcribed as Wm J (26) but the original could be either I or J, and Eliza is 22. Parishes born (St Peter, St John) are all actually in Worcester city.
In 1891 William has become a dairyman in Birmingham and is married to a Sophia. His 2nd marriage to Sophia Williams was in Birmingham 1890 but his other children (William) Frederick Rach(a)el and John all have the MMN Anthony. All b Worcester. Eliza is Eliza O but it takes a lot of imagination to read that as a B - enumerator's mistranscription? Her mother is possibly the Eliza Hodges died aged 30 1889 Birmingham.
In 1901 the same family also has an Albert, 9 - he turns out to be Albert Inkermann Hodges MMN Williams. No Eliza but I did find her as a possible servant, 20, in Birmingham. In 1911 Wm has the full William Inkerman Hodges for the first time, still in Brum.
William I was registered 1855 Worcester MMN Morgan, which implies that he was the son of John Hodges and Caroline Morgan though usual caveats apply, and I found them in 1871 in the city, the only oddity that William 16 was a Glover, but I can't find this family in 1861. Eliza Anthony I found as a servant age 12 (!) in 1871 and in 1861 with her parents James and Eliza in Powick, just outside Worcester, though born in the city - but no meaningful registration.
I can't see Worcs parish records on A****y but they may be elsewhere. Maybe someone else can have a go.
Chris
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Hi Chris. Wow. You have been busy. I must go through the rest of the certificates and see what else is there. I still have a large amount of papers to go through. I'll let you and Karen and Gloria know what else turns up. My Thanks for all this hard work. Sue.
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No problem, Sue.
And on FamilySearch, free for all to see, can be found the baptisms of William Inkerman Hodges (17 Sept 1856 Worcester, son of John and Caroline) and Eliza Anthony (7 November 1858 St John Bedwardine, Worcester, daughter of James and Eliza).
Chris
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Familysearch only went down for maintenance not long after I posted that. But it's back up now. I've since found that James Anthony probably married Eliza Bosworth 1853 in Upton district - which comes very close to Worcester, including Powick. They seem not to have registered Eliza (it wasn't yet a legal requirement) but her brother George was (GRO). This would explain how Eliza Bosworth Hodges got her middle name.
There's a possible baptism for Eliza Bosworth 12/1/1834 Leigh-with-Bransford, parents William and Mary - which if a slightly late one fits Eliza Anthony's age and birthplace on censuses.
Chris
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Hi Chris, I have gone through some more of the certificates I have here and Eliza was born 8th August 1880. It is a small certificate and does not include details of parents. The birth was registered on the 13th September 1880 at Worcester West. I also have another registered at Worcester South of William Thomas born 10th April 1878 of 3 King William St. Worcester. Parents are named as Henry Thomas and Ann Thomas formerly Wright. Not sure what the connection is here. Sue.
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Hi Sue and Chris,
Some great information here. It will help a lot.
Yes Sue. Gloria and I are Mary and Derek's daughters.
We must have a private chat sometime soon (when I can work out how to do it).
Karen
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You can now send a private message - PM - to Sue. Under her "CovKids" logo you will see an image that looks like a page of writing. If you click on that you will be taken to the Message section and you can then communicate with each other. You may then wish to exchange e-mail addresses. :)
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Hi Chris, I have gone through some more of the certificates I have here and Eliza was born 8th August 1880. It is a small certificate and does not include details of parents. The birth was registered on the 13th September 1880 at Worcester West. I also have another registered at Worcester South of William Thomas born 10th April 1878 of 3 King William St. Worcester. Parents are named as Henry Thomas and Ann Thomas formerly Wright. Not sure what the connection is here. Sue.
This is looking good, folks, and yes you can chat by private message. If the birth cert is for Eliza Bosworth Hodges and seems to be an old one rather than one sent for recently by a researcher then there's already enough info about her birth. Frankly, no family historian would send for a short-form cert anyway - lacks that vital parent info.
Likewise for William Thomas. As I posted much earlier there were a lot of Wm Thomases born around Worcester arounsd that time, but this very much pins him down. I'll have a look for him presently. It does seem as if they never married (in England and Wales) unless the entry got very garbled - not likely for surnames this well known. One reason might be that one party was already married - probably William as no marriage found for Eliza.
I'll start looking for William shortly
Chris
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Yes William can be found on the 1881, 1891 and 1901 censuses, first in Claines just outside Worcester, and then in the city. His father is first Henry William but afterwards William Henry but he is consistently a butcher married to Ann and the ages and his brthplace and such children that carry over are reasonable matches. I couldn't find their marriage until I swapped his forenames around - Droitwich district 1866 but this can't be taken as gospel as there are 4 names on the page and I can't find a church record.
I found that William's next older brother Edward Herbert and his three younger sisters had the MMN Wright, this was also true of his older siblings Mary and Matthew if I assumed their birth was not Broadway as transcribed but more likely Broadwas in Martley district and much nearer to the city - and sure enough FamilySearch has their baptisms in Broadwas, though not the younger siblings. Matt was registered "Mathew" Henry and his birth doesn't really match his census age.
More later if I've time
Chris
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The birth places of Mary Maria and Mathew do read more as Broadwas on the original, but easy to mistake them for the more famous Broadway if you don't know.
There's quite a small window between William Thomas being single on the 1901 and the birth of his and Eliza's eldest child William in Worcester in 1903, who matches in the next census record. They don't seem to marry in that window - or at all! Significant that Sue who has both their birth certs doesn't have the marriage one?
Chris