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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: tamarakel on Saturday 30 September 17 00:38 BST (UK)

Title: Looking for info on Barbara Russell/born in Tynemouth
Post by: tamarakel on Saturday 30 September 17 00:38 BST (UK)
Good Evening,

I've had great luck with help from you ladies and gents so I'm trying here again...my 3rd grandmother's name is Barbara Russell she was born in Tynemouth, her father was William Russell and Mary (Smiles?), she was baptised in Christ church tynemouth on 19 feb 1823. When I look at William Russell and Mary Smiles as her parents, something does not quite seem right, is there any record to solidify their connection? like GRO Marriage certificate, she was married in 1844...The reason why I have my doubts is because William Russell and Mary Smiles went from anglican to catholic, Barbara was the only one baptised as anglican and the rest were catholic and I didn't think that is a common thing in the 1820's...if anyone could help that would be great!
Title: Re: Looking for info on Barbara Russell/born in Tynemouth
Post by: Radcliff on Saturday 30 September 17 09:17 BST (UK)
I have many changes such as this in my family history,I wouln't be looking to deeply into it,why not
just order the Leatherhead marriage certificate and see if it has any information you haven't already got I don't see it at Christ church was it St Josephs

her parents as you probably already know where married at Christ Church 293rd November 1818
so no children between then and 1823 ?
Title: Re: Looking for info on Barbara Russell/born in Tynemouth
Post by: ciderdrinker on Saturday 30 September 17 13:50 BST (UK)
Hello
Have you considered the bias against Catholics at the time?
Legally they would have to have married in a C of E church before 1837 south of the boarder so nothing surprising there.
The Roman catholic chapel at Tynemouth didn't open until 1816 ,perhaps William and Mary took a little time to get back to their catholic roots.If they were worried about discrimination or were a mixed marriage then christening their children in the local Anglican church may just have seemed easier .It looks as though there is a brother Samuel at the catholic chapel maybe he persuaded them it was ok.
Just a thought.

Ciderinker
Title: Re: Looking for info on Barbara Russell/born in Tynemouth
Post by: tamarakel on Sunday 01 October 17 03:00 BST (UK)
I have many changes such as this in my family history,I wouln't be looking to deeply into it,why not
just order the Leatherhead marriage certificate and see if it has any information you haven't already got I don't see it at Christ church was it St Josephs

her parents as you probably already know where married at Christ Church 293rd November 1818
so no children between then and 1823 ?

I believe one of my distant cousins has a marriage certificate for Barbara, but I believe it only says the father's name not the mother...

I did find her marriage record at christ church..

I will check if there are any other children born to William Russell and Mary Smiles before 1823, that might give me more info, thanks for the tip!
Title: Re: Looking for info on Barbara Russell/born in Tynemouth
Post by: tamarakel on Sunday 01 October 17 03:05 BST (UK)
Hello
Have you considered the bias against Catholics at the time?
Legally they would have to have married in a C of E church before 1837 south of the boarder so nothing surprising there.
The Roman catholic chapel at Tynemouth didn't open until 1816 ,perhaps William and Mary took a little time to get back to their catholic roots.If they were worried about discrimination or were a mixed marriage then christening their children in the local Anglican church may just have seemed easier .It looks as though there is a brother Samuel at the catholic chapel maybe he persuaded them it was ok.
Just a thought.

Ciderinker

I am in Canada and unfortunately do not know about religion and bias against the catholics in the 1800's in England..I am catholic myself.. Do you know where I can get access to catholic records for the catholic church in Tynemouth? p.s. who is brother Samuel? you mean a brother to William?
Title: Re: Looking for info on Barbara Russell/born in Tynemouth
Post by: River Tyne Lass on Sunday 01 October 17 12:37 BST (UK)
Hi tamarakel,

Google a great North East Genealogy website called - ''Margaret Hall Genealogy '.

Then click on the link for Tyne and Wear Archives User Guides to download their record guides. These will show what records they hold for RC records in North Shields (St Joseph & St Cuthbert) and other places in the area.

Best Wishes :)
Title: Re: Looking for info on Barbara Russell/born in Tynemouth
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 01 October 17 13:06 BST (UK)
Mothers names are not included on English Marriage Certs, only Fathers name/occp.
+ Witnesses who may or not be Family members.

Barbaras Baptism is on FreeREG 19 Feb 1823, Christ Church, Tynemouth to William/Mary
Fathers Occp Labourer
Abode North Shields

Cant find a Baptism for Charlotte age 11 on the 1841 Census with Barbara (Barbary) either.
Title: Re: Looking for info on Barbara Russell/born in Tynemouth
Post by: ciderdrinker on Monday 02 October 17 10:26 BST (UK)
Hello
About those catholic records.
The catholic church at Tynemouth started in 1816 and is available  with images on FindMyPast and Ancestry.
The index is also on Familysearch.
And yes I did mean Samuel was the possible brother of William.
Catholic weddings were banned in England and Wales 1754-1837.There were fines for not attending a C of E church and restrictions on jobs and leaving property in their Wills.Over the boarder in Scotland things were more relaxed catholic weddings,informal wedding were the two parties just had to say they were married in front of witnesses.
In theory the local parish vicar in the C of England  should list all the births,marriages and deaths in his parish irrespective of whether they came to his church but that doesn't usually happen.


Ciderdrinker
Title: Re: Looking for info on Barbara Russell/born in Tynemouth
Post by: Radcliff on Monday 09 October 17 19:47 BST (UK)
Have you gone further back in your research then Barbara was her father catholic and he mother not or vice versa
Title: Re: Looking for info on Barbara Russell/born in Tynemouth
Post by: tamarakel on Wednesday 11 October 17 13:09 BST (UK)
Hi tamarakel,

Google a great North East Genealogy website called - ''Margaret Hall Genealogy '.

Then click on the link for Tyne and Wear Archives User Guides to download their record guides. These will show what records they hold for RC records in North Shields (St Joseph & St Cuthbert) and other places in the area.

Best Wishes :)

thank you I will check it out :) I remember using that website for the weatherheads too :)
Title: Re: Looking for info on Barbara Russell/born in Tynemouth
Post by: tamarakel on Wednesday 11 October 17 13:12 BST (UK)
Mothers names are not included on English Marriage Certs, only Fathers name/occp.
+ Witnesses who may or not be Family members.

Barbaras Baptism is on FreeREG 19 Feb 1823, Christ Church, Tynemouth to William/Mary
Fathers Occp Labourer
Abode North Shields

Cant find a Baptism for Charlotte age 11 on the 1841 Census with Barbara (Barbary) either.

Ok wasn't sure about what info was on the marriage certificates, thank you for that...I believe that Barbara (Barbary) is not related to me since the dates do not match..
Title: Re: Looking for info on Barbara Russell/born in Tynemouth
Post by: tamarakel on Wednesday 11 October 17 13:15 BST (UK)
Hello
About those catholic records.
The catholic church at Tynemouth started in 1816 and is available  with images on FindMyPast and Ancestry.
The index is also on Familysearch.
And yes I did mean Samuel was the possible brother of William.
Catholic weddings were banned in England and Wales 1754-1837.There were fines for not attending a C of E church and restrictions on jobs and leaving property in their Wills.Over the boarder in Scotland things were more relaxed catholic weddings,informal wedding were the two parties just had to say they were married in front of witnesses.
In theory the local parish vicar in the C of England  should list all the births,marriages and deaths in his parish irrespective of whether they came to his church but that doesn't usually happen.


Ciderdrinker

Thank you so much for this, I have an account with find my past, so I was able to see the actual records, that was awesome! I had no idea on the limitations the catholics had in England at that time, thank you for sharing that with me. I will check out Samuel as well..
Title: Re: Looking for info on Barbara Russell/born in Tynemouth
Post by: tamarakel on Wednesday 11 October 17 13:19 BST (UK)
Have you gone further back in your research then Barbara was her father catholic and he mother not or vice versa

I know that William Russell (Barbara's Father) and Mary Smiles (Barbara's mother) got married in Christchurch in 1818, I do not know who William Russell's parents or Mary Smiles parents are or when they were born...I am trying to find a baptism record for William and Mary in the Christ church records but so far nothing...if anyone wants to help me with this, it would be much appreciated...I had info from a relative that they were born in 1803 but I know that can't be right since they were married in 1818, or could they have married at 15???
Title: Re: Looking for info on Barbara Russell/born in Tynemouth
Post by: tamarakel on Thursday 12 October 17 21:16 BST (UK)
So I'm pretty excited, I had a breakthrough!!! I decided to upgrade to the world ancestry and bingo, I was able to find another sibling for Barbara Russell...her name is Catharine Russell born in durham in 1819, she was baptised in a catholic church in durham...so I'm getting closer and closer...I'm now going to look for other siblings there as well to see if William Russell and Mary Smiles are born in that area as well...
Title: Re: Looking for info on Barbara Russell/born in Tynemouth
Post by: trish1120 on Friday 13 October 17 10:36 BST (UK)
Familysearch.Org has;
WILLIAM 15 Oct 1826
MARY ANN 16 Feb 1829
CHARLES 8 Nov 1830
Roman Catholic, Tynemouth
Parents Wm RUSSELL and Mary SMILES

There is also Barbara 1823 to William/Mary
Catherine 1820 Durham as you say.

Trish :)