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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => West Lothian (Linlithgowshire) => Topic started by: annieblondie on Thursday 05 October 17 00:19 BST (UK)
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Hi there
I have a 4x great grandfather, George Jarvey in my family line. He was born in 1766 (calculated from census records) and died sometime between 1841 and 1851. He was married to Jean Whytt (born in Slamannan in 1769-1855). He was a farmer as were his sons. On the Bathgate parish records for the births of his first two sons, John Jarvey (1796-1849) and George (1804-1889), he and his wife are just named as the parents. However, on the record for his son William (1806-1857ish), he is called George Jarvey in Balbardie and his spouse Jean Whyte .... I can also find him as George Jarvie, Balbardie in tax records for 1797/98 and 1798/99.
I can find a John Jarvey, late tenant farmer of Balbardie who died 1797 and his wife, Mary Cleland. Old parish records show John and Mary had several children - Thomas Jervy (1749), William Jarvy (1751), James Jarvie (1760), Mary Jarvey (1770). I also know there was a George Jarvey, vintner, Bathgate who had Jarvey Street, Bathgate named after him and I think was the brother of John Jarvey (from a history of James 'Young' Simpson).
So, after all that information, does anyone know if George Jarvey, vintner, married and had children, one of whom could be my George Jarvey (1766)? Or did John and Mary have a son called George who took over Balbardie after John died?
I know there are a couple of you wonderful forumites who have an interest in the Bathgate Jarvey/Jarvie family line, so I'm hoping you might be able to point me in the right direction.
Many thanks in advance.
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Annie, can't be a common name in Bathgate, I don't see any in the Bathgate Mortality Records 1860-1925, possibly to late & the family have moved elsewhere?
Skoosh.
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I have an interest in Mary Jarvey (1770-1820). She was the daughter of John Jarvey and Mary Cleland in Balbardie, and granddaughter of Thomas Jarvey and Isabella Wardrop.
Mary Jarvey married David Simpson (1760-1830) and their seventh son was Sir James Young Simpson, pioneer of anaesthetics.
My connection is via Mary Cleland. Her mother Elizabeth Storrie of Braco was the sister of my great-great-great-great-grandfather John Storrie of Braco. So I have not looked further into the Jarveys than at Mary Jarvey's parents and siblings.
However I have yet to find out what happaned to Mary Jarvey's brothers Thomas, William and James. I also wonder whether George Jarvey (1766) could be a another brother whose baptism went unrecorded?
Be very, very, very careful of what you take from online histories of Sir James Young Simpson. There is an unbelievable amount of rubbish online about his family connections put there by people whose research has been sloppy and careless to the point of negligence.
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Thank you both for getting back to me.
I know the family moved to Glasgow around 1818/19 because I have Jean Whyte's very detailed death certificate saying they'd beeen living in Glasgow for 36 years. And the family didn't move very far from the area they originally settled until the 1960's when Possil/Maryhill was being redeveloped.
I'm thinking too that George Jarvey (1766) was perhaps an undocumented son of John and Mary, although I read somewhere that I forgot to bookmark to easily find, that some pages of records for old parish records in Bathgate/Livingston are missing. I know too, that it was normal for a son to take over his father's farm, so perhaps George took over Balbardie when John died in 1797. The dates certainly match.
My grandmother always said James Young Simpson was a cousin of the family. William Jarvey (1806) daughter, Jean Jarvey, was her mother, so my gran did take that middle name. If George Jarvey is Mary Jarvey's brother, that would indeed make him a cousin of her grandfather. Either way, I'd still love to know where my George Jarvey came from. As for his children, John (1796) died single, in 1849. George (1804) remained single as did their sister Jean (1800), whose birth wasn't recorded either. William (1806) was widowed not long after the birth of his two daughters, who both married in Glasgow. And so down to us!!!
I have read some of the very incorrect stuff about James Young Simpson. As you say, Forfarian, total rubbish. And, if I can ever find a connection with John Jarvey and Mary Cleland, maybe it's "hello, distant cousin". Do you have any information on George Jarvey, vintner, of Bathgate, please? It may be that he was the father of my George.
Once again, thank you Skoosh and Forfarian for taking the time to reply to me.
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No, I'm afraid that I don't have any information about George Jarvey the vintner. I only wondered about George (1766) being a son of John J and Mary Cleland because it is usual for a son to take over from his father.
If George was their son, he wasn't the eldest son so his elder brothers must all have died or emigrated or found other farms during their father's lifetime (if so, where?) but it's also possible that a nephew took on the family farm if all his cousins were gone. So that gets me nowhere, really!
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Here's an interesting snippet. It's a reference from the catalogue of the National Records of Scotland that I have not yet followed up. It seems to have dragged on until 1818.
James Corbet, surgeon, Royal Navy v George Jarvey, son of the deceased John Jarvey, vintner, Bathgate 1 Sep 1810 [NAS CS38/1/108]
CS38/19/81 Same people 3 Apr 1818 and CS38/20/17 Same again 22 Jun 1818.
Could this conceivably provide a reason for George moving to Glasgow in 1818/1819?
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Possibly worth looking at the newspaper archive, Forfarian - notice in the Caledonian Mercury 8 Aug 1811 regarding creditors of the late John Jarvey,vintner,Bathgate has " at the instance of James Corbet...against the creditors of the said John Jarvey".
Also note that there is a short obituary for George Jarvey, Caledonian Mercury 8 March 1806.
William
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I don't currently have a subscription to the Newspaper Archive (waiting until life is a bit less hectic so I can be sure to get the most out of it!) but will bear that in mind.
The burning question will then be, "Was one and the same John Jarvey both a farmer and a vintner, or were there two John Jarveys, one a vintner and the other a farmer?"
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Have been having a rake about in the Caledonian Mercury, which I can access via the National Library of Scotland.
Jarvey John in Balbairdy aged 78 years Palsey died Feby 7th 1797. [Bathgate Parish Register]
Sequestrations etc. 1801. July 27. John Baillie, vintner at Broxburn. Creditors to meet in the house of John Jarvey, vintner in Bathgate, on the 1st August next, at 12 o'clock noon, to name an interim factor; and again, at same place and hour, on the 19th August next, to chuse a trustee. [Caledonian Mercury, 5 August 1801]
Lost. Dropt on Tuesday, the Three following Bills: £67:9:7, due 15th and 18th March 1805, accepted by Armstrong and Co Edinburgh; £26:11:0, due 7th and 10th March 1805, accepted by Wm Pender, Airdrie; £21, due 3d and 6th January 1805, accepted by John Jarvey, Bathgate. As payment of the above Bills is Stopped, they can be of no use to any person except the drawer. For the above bills a handsome Reward will be given, by applying at the Caledonian Mercury Office. [Caledonian Mercury, 27 December 1804]
Died. Upon the 14th Ult Mr George Jarvey, vintner in Bathgate, aged 80 years. Mr Jarvey contributed largely towards the improvement of Bathgate, his native soil, and afforded the inhabitants the pleasure of walking in a beautiful garden, scarcely to be equalled in a country village. It will be a circumstance gratifying to his friends, that as he lived respected, so he died much regretted by his numerous acquaintances. [Caledonian Mercury, 8 March 1806]
We hear from Bathgate, that on the evening of Tuesday the 11th curt (being old New Year's Day, which the masters of servants in country towns, rather improperly allow them to indulge in noctural inebriations), a number of young lads, apprentices of mechanics in that place, broke into the gardens of the peaceful inhabitants, and wantonly destroyed the fruit trees, and others within them, particularly into the beautiful and delightful garden, the property of Mr Jarvey, vintner, in which they broke down and destroyed some very fine statues, which ornament it. From the vigorous and cautious steps adopted by Mr Jarvey, most of the delinquents have been apprehended and committed to prison by the Justices of the Peace. [Caledonian Mercury, 16 January 1808]
Scots Bankrupts. William Fleming, Vintner, Bathgate. Creditors meet in Jarvey's inmm 15th June, 12 oclock, to name a factor; same place and hour, 15th July, to elect a trustee. [Caledonian Mercury, 11 June 1808]
To the Creditors of John Jarvey, late Vintner, Bathgate. In the process of multiple-poinding, depending on the Supreme Court, before Lord Meadowbank, Ordinary (Mr Rose, clerk) at the instance of James Corbet, surgeon, royal navy, against the creditors of said John Jarvey, his Lordhsip, by interlocutor of 9th July 1811, appointed John Gibson, writer to the signet, to be common agent for carrying on the process; and of new ordanied the creditors to produce their interests against the first box day in the present vacation, with certification, and appointed intimation to be made thereof; of which notice is hereby given to all concerned. [Caledonian Mercury, 8 August 1811]
I think, if I put all this together, that John Jarvey, vintner, Bathgate, was the son of George Jarvey, vintner, Bathgate, who was born about 1715 and died in 1806. As John Jarvey in Balbardie died in 1797, he cannot be the same person as the John Jarvey, vintner, in whose premises creditors' meetings were held in 1801 and 1808, and who was himself sequestrated in 1811.
Therefore George Jarvey senior could be a brother of John Jarvey in Balbardie, and yes, he had at least one son so may have had others, for example your George junior born about 1766.
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You are all wonderful.
I'm reasonably new to "family treeing", so it didn't even occur to me to look at old newspapers.
I think I'm with you Forfarian on this one - it does look to me as if George Jarvey, vintner, had a son John Jarvey, vintner. And my George could probably be the son of John Jarvey of Balbardie.
I'll keep looking.
I'm very grateful to you all for your detective work.
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Hmmm. I think that John Jarvey who married Mary Cleland was born at Boghall, rather than at Balbardie, and I don't know when the Jarveys took on Balbardie or which of them took it on.
I see that I perpetrated a typo, by the way, which is that George must have been born in 1725 or 1726, not 1715, if he died in 1806 aged 80. (My keyboard is doing weird things when I try to type a number!)
Thomas Jarvey and Isabella Wardrop, whom I believe to be the parents of John Jarvey in Balbardie, were married in Bathgate on 26 July 1709, and had three recorded sons: Alexander, born 11 February and baptised 22 May 1724; George, baptised 29 October 1726; Joseph, born 1 January baptised 2 February 1729. So this George is an almost exact fit for the vintner who died in 1806, and there is a gap between 1709 and 1724 which covers the time when John was born.
I haven't looked at those three baptisms, by the way. It is possible that they might say where in Bathgate the parents' residence was at the time.
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Google Books has this from The Commisariot of Edinburgh: Consistorial Processes and Decreets (unfortunately it is only a snippet view)
"against George Jarvie, brewer and feuar in Bathgate and John Jarvie, tenant in Boghall 1762 486".
William
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I plan a visit to the Mitchell Library in Glasgow to tie up all the loose ends of the family without it costing me a fortune on scotlandspeople website. I'll add these three Jarvey/Jarvie to the ever growing list. The records might indeed give more information on places.
Thank you too William. I'm wondering if there may be records from the Marjoribanks family that give details of who tenanted their farms and when.
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"against George Jarvie, brewer and feuar in Bathgate and John Jarvie, tenant in Boghall 1762 486".
I have looked again and I see that the baptisms of the three sons of John Jarvey and Mary Cleland do not state the parents' residence, and their daughter Mary wasn't baptised in Bathgate: Mary daughter to John Jarvey and Mary Cleland in New Barricks was born and baptized July 15 1770. [Livingston Parish Register]
So it looks as if John didn't take on Balbardie until after Mary was born. I have, from somewhere, a death date in 1751 for John's probable father Thomas Jarvey. So did John take over Boghall from his father, then move to Livingston, then return and take the tenancy of Balbardie?
Looking for Marjoribanks rental rolls sounds good to me.
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Thank you for finding that out. That certainly makes a lot of sense. I read somewhere that many of the small farms in the Bathgate area disappeared with the march of the coal mines and that may have been why my lot ended up in Glasgow. They described themselves as market gardeners after that and in the area they were in during the census of 1841, there were lots of small holdings some more like very large allottments. And, of course, the farms on the outskirts of Glasgow provided work too before the very last George ended up managing the local saw mill. His niece, Jane Jarvey, married one of the (Brownlee) Forrest boys, so many of the extended family worked in the saw mills.
You are all very good with your research and your abilities to "think out of the box".
Thank you.
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So you've all helped me research a bit more creatively this evening and I have found:
Mr Jarvie's Inn in Bathgate mentioned in a book called Travels in Scotland 1788-1881, where Mr Jarvie himself is described as "a most eccentric and agreeable man" and with a wonderful description of his garden. The traveller journeyed from Sunday 23 May 1790 to the following Monday.
And Forfarian, I have come across something that may help with your research into the Cleland side, if only because it may place John and Mary.
Forbes of Callendar Papers are held by Falkirk Community Trust and it turns out they contain correspondence from John Jarvey at Balbardie, including four letters from 1790 concerning Barbauchlaw, West Lothian which he hopes William Forbes will buy. I'm still figuring out how to see the relevant papers but it may require a wee jaunt to Falkirk. And, of course, I'm not yet quite certain, what John Jarvey we may be dealing with.
Just wanted to keep you up-to-date.
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Thank you, that sounds interesting. I'll look forward to hearing what they tell you. I have a death date of 1797 for Mary Cleland's husband, so it looks very likely that this is he.
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Some random info ......
West Lothian pre-1855 MI's for Bathgate High Church (on Jarvey Street) list a 19th century style obelisk for:
"George Jarvey who by his industry greatly improved Bathgate"
Also appears on Bathgate High Church Index on memento-mori.co.uk, see:
http://www.memento-mori.co.uk/117.pdf
Anne :)
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More random info ....
Also in the pre-1855 Book, there is a reference to a record of 'Scandal' held at NAS.
See: http://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/details.aspx?reference=CC8%2f6%2f393&st=2&tc=y&tl=n&tn=n&tp=n&k=george+jarvie&ko=a&r=&ro=c&df=&dt=&di=y&dc=&dco=s&t=&to=o&
"Scandal - Robert RAMSAY brewer in Bathgate v. George JARVIE brewer & feuer in Bathgate & John JARVIE tenant in Boghall. 1762"
There are another few mentions of Jarvies, but if any of them are related, I haven't a clue.
Anne :)
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On a roll here ......
Under the spelling JARVEY, again at NAS:
http://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/overview.aspx?st=2&tc=y&tl=n&tn=n&tp=n&k=george+jarvey&ko=a&r=&ro=c&df=&dt=&di=y&dc=&dco=s&t=&to=o&
Anne :)
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Thank you Anne. Really interesting information and certainly gives me something to work on.
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Indeed it is.
I haven't come across contra hereditatem iacentem before. 'Contra' is Latin for 'against', 'hereditatem' is the accusative case of 'hereditas' which is Latin for 'inheritance' and 'iacentem' is the adjective 'lying' agreeing with 'hereditatem' so the phrase is something like 'against the inheritance resting to' someone. So this looks like Corbett pursuing his case against John Jarvey by going for his son, who is due to inherit from him.
Also interesting that the fourth document mentions David Simpson as well as George Jarvey. If George Jarvey sr was the brother of John Jarvey in Balbardie, then George Jarvey, son of John the sequestrated vintner, was first cousin once removed to David Simpson's wife Mary Jarvey, who was potentially the heiress to the estate of George Jarvey if all her brothers had died.
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Glad to be of help! :)
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If it's any help, there's some anecdotes about Bathgate in my great grandfather's recollections: https://gtoal.com/bathgate/ "A bit of old Bathgate". Mary Jarvey (Sir James Young Simpson's mother) was my Great^5 Grandmother. There's a lovely mention of her in A Bit of Old Bathgate:
About the same distance to the left from where we
stand is the birthplace of Sir James Young Simpson, the
discoverer of chloroform, who was born on 17th June 1811.
His father was a baker, and his mother a good pious woman,
endowed with a vast amount of common sense. One day (as
a boy) when the future Professor came into the house, with
a big hole in the heel of his stocking, she took him on her
knee and darned the stocking, remarking -- "My Jamie,
when your mother's awa', you'll remember that she was a
gran' darner."
By the way, did you know that John Napier (famous mathematician, the inventor of logarithms) was related to the Jarveys as well, by marriage: John Napier's son Archibald Napier (1534) -> John Napier (1580) -> John Napier (1615) -> John Napier (1635) who married Janet Jarvey (1634-1671)