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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ross & Cromarty => Topic started by: BronwenS on Saturday 07 October 17 01:16 BST (UK)
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Trying to find Betsy/Betty's parents possibly:
MCKENZIE BETTY GEORGE MCKENZIE/ELSPETH WRIGHT [/color]F 19/02/1786 432/ 20 78 Inverkeithing
Her and her husband are listed on the 1841 census in Lochbroom but not in 1851.
Betty/Betsy McKenzie wife of John Campbell mother of Joseph
B:1795 March 29th Alva -not absolutely sure that this is her birth. Seems a long way away from where she married?
M:1817 Dec 18th Lochbroom parish, Ross & Cromarty (Ardmair listed as parish) (register to hand)
D:
Census
1841 Lochbroom
Children 7
1823 Betsy Campbell
1825 Ann Campbell
1831 Elizabeth Campbell (register to hand)
1831 April 24th Joseph Campbell
1836 Norman Campbell (tenanted crofts 15 & 16 in 1892, then John Fraser tenanted both?)
1836 Alexis Campbell
1840 Catherine Campbell who had an illegitimate son John Fraser born in Dores, Inverness in 1857 to James Fraser (John lived at croft 16 until his death) death certificate to hand, 26March 26th 1931 – died at Pultney St, Ulapool age 78
Thanks Bronwen summers, CHCh NZ
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Hi Bronwen,
Trying to find Betsy/Betty's parents possibly:
MCKENZIE BETTY GEORGE MCKENZIE/ELSPETH WRIGHT F 19/02/1786 432/ 20 78 Inverkeithing
Her and her husband are listed on the 1841 census in Lochbroom but not in 1851.
Betty/Betsy McKenzie
B:1795 March 29th Alva -not absolutely sure that this is her birth. Seems a long way away from where she married?
M:1817 Dec 18th Lochbroom parish, Ross & Cromarty (Ardmair listed as parish)
Inverkeithing (Fife) & Alva (Stirling) are both a long way from Lochbroom (Ross & Cromarty).
If you check the 1841 (https://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl)
Piece: SCT1841/75 Place: Lochbroom -Ross and Cromarty Enumeration District: 10
Civil Parish: Lochbroom Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 0 Page: 11
Address: Morefield
CAMPBELL Betsy 45 Ross and Cromarty
If you're looking at the original from SP it will indicate 'Yes' or 'Y' below the column which says 'Born in County'
So Betsy/Betty/Elizabeth/Elisabeth/Bessy/Bessie (all variants to look for) was (if the info. in 1841 is correct) born in R & C.
Annie
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Hi
The records for Lochbroom parish don't go back any further than the 1790s, so birth/marriage will most likely not be found. I know of people who've been to the National Archives in Edinburgh and searched through various records there and found some information but it is difficult.
If they died before 1855, they might also not be recorded in the parish records. Monumental inscriptions are the best source in these cases.
http://www.dustydocs.com/county/2/scotland/174/ross-and-cromarty.html
(scroll to Lochbroom)
Also, the Ullapool Museum does have a large range of sources and do do research ~
http://www.ullapoolmuseum.co.uk/
(Morefield is just to the NW of Ullapool itself)
Gadget
Added - jut realised that I gave similar advice on your previous thread - sorry for repetition :-\
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Just wondering if you have any of the family in R & C or Scotland after 1841?
There were many people who immigrated in the late 1840s.
Do you have any of the children marrying in Scotland after 1855 which would let you know if the parents were alive/deceased?
Annie
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Many thanks for all your time and helpful responses. I was in Ulapool in July this year and had the wonderful volunteers help me with various aspects of all of this. I had contacted them in January of this year. I have been to Morefield and photographed the croft house that this family lived in which was truly fantastic.
I know she was born in R&C so knew although it was far away perhaps it was Inverkeithing. I regularly check maps to see distances.
I will look again at dusty docs, I am almost sure they won't have any doubt headstone because they were very poor. But I do want to look into the parish records that may have some record there. I understand that Scotland's People are working on releasing Parish records on their site.
Yes I do have family in R&C after 1841. The son Joseph married in 1857 (I have the register for this both parents are recorded as being deceased) Joseph and family remained in R&C. He was the only one of the 7 children to marry and is part of my direct line.
I will check more carefully and cover all the names suggested: Betsy/Betty/Elizabeth/Elisabeth/Bessy/Bessie
Kind regards
Bronwen Summers CHCH, NZ
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I know she was born in R&C so knew although it was far away perhaps it was Inverkeithing. I regularly check maps to see distances.
If she was born R & C then she was definitely not born in Inverkeithing.
I have just looked at the distance & time (by todays travel via motorway) which would probably be a third of the time taken back then...
"3 h 40 min (196.4 mi) via A9"
Just because it's the only one you found (recorded) it doesn't mean it's your ancestor but in the same token (without any proof) it doesn't mean it's not but doubtful :-\
Annie
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Thanks Annie, yes I realise it doesn't mean it is my ancestor consequently I wouldn't add her in. I am still working on trying to find a death for her or her husband John. They lived at croft No. 16 in Morefield for all of their married life. I have been working on this all morning to no avail. Have checked all the possible names: Betsy/Betty/Bessie/Bessy/Elizabeth/Elisabeth.
I am astonished that I cannot find them (perhaps they had died) but any of the family living in Ullapool (Morfield) in the '51 census. I know they were there because one of the children took over the croft and ultimately the illegitimate child of the youngest daughter lived there until about 1925.
Oh well it is raining so I can't be in my large lovely garden.
Regards Bronwen
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Bronwen,
Official Registration of BMDs in Scotland began 1855 i.e. very few records are to be found prior to then in OPRs (Old Parochial Records) especially deaths.
Gadget has given you the best advice from her experience...
The records for Lochbroom parish don't go back any further than the 1790s, so birth/marriage will most likely not be found. I know of people who've been to the National Archives in Edinburgh and searched through various records there and found some information but it is difficult.
If they died before 1855, they might also not be recorded in the parish records. Monumental inscriptions are the best source in these cases.
http://www.dustydocs.com/county/2/scotland/174/ross-and-cromarty.html
(scroll to Lochbroom)
Also, the Ullapool Museum does have a large range of sources and do do research ~
http://www.ullapoolmuseum.co.uk/
(Morefield is just to the NW of Ullapool itself)
Annie
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These may be worth a browse...
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search/results?st=morefield
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search/results?st=campbell
You need to scroll to R & C
Annie
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From this I would think it could be John Campbell i.e. still alive between 1848 & 1852 possibly?
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/ross-and-cromarty-os-name-books-1848-1852/ross-and-cromarty-mainland-volume-21/3
If you scroll down to the bottom of the pages on those links, the writing you see on the doc has been transcribed.
Annie
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Great thanks Annie. I have done everything that Gadget told me to do. I have had research done in Ulapool which is why I have as much information as I do have. I also went there in July this year which was truly marvellous andwent to Morefield and saw where my g x 4 lived. I will look at the latest suggestions you have given me.
Where do you live?
Regards Bronwen
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I have done everything that Gadget told me to do
had research done in Ulapool which is why I have as much information as I do have.
Where do you live?
Looks like you have pretty much exhausted all avenues.
I live near(ish) to Inverkeithing ;)
Annie
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You must be a real night owl. I have the Ross' and Sutherland's from Fearn and various other bits to look at yet.
Regards Bronwen
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Hi
I have done more delving over Betsy/Betty and have found two possibilities in R&C. However still no death certificate of Betty from 1851 (she is not on 1861 census on) onwards that would help ascertain which one it might be.
MACKENZIE BETTY DUNCAN MACKENZIE/HELEN PATERSON F 26/08/1795 085/10 133 Urray
MACKENZIE BETTY HUGH MACKENZIE/HELEN CAMPBEL FR 70 (FR70) F26/04/1796 073/10 63 Knockbain
Still trying to find the births of Betty and John's children: Betsy, Ann, Norman, Alexis, Catherine. I understand they were all born at Airdmair in Lochbroom. I have now found the deaths of some of them. I could only find 7 deaths of a Campbell in R&C between 1823 and 1855 which seems pretty odd.
I do have the census for every year except 1851 where I couldn't find any of them (see below), I haven't found them all on the other census but have certainly looked across R&C. I also have the census for Joseph who moved away and had a large family, he was my gggg grandparent
Census
1841 Lochbroom Betsy is 45
1861 Norman 29, Ann 36, Eliza 34 and John Fraser 8 living at Lochbroom 19 ? Ullapool
1871 Norman 35 crofter, Ann 46 servant, Eliza servant, John Fraser 17 farm servant 17 Morefield
1881 Norman crofter, Eliza 50 house keeper, Catherine 47 general servant domestic, John Fraser 26 assistant. Rooms with 1 or more windows – 2, hamlet of Kenachrine, Coigach
1891 Norman 55 crofter or fisherman, Catherine 57 housekeeper to brother, John Fraser 28 fisherman. Rooms with 1 or more windows - 2 (crofters house)
1901 John Fraser 46 crofter and general labourer, Catherine 63 listed as crofter’s aunt of John Fraser. Rooms with 1 or more windows – 2
1911 John Fraser 54
Many thanks Bronwen ChCh NZ
1823 Betsy Campbell
1825 Ann Campbell 40 years old at marriage (says she was 36 on marriage cert )
M:1865 Dec 5th Donald Paterson, Ploughman, at the Free Church Manse, Ullapool, by G MacLeod, Lochbroom. She made her mark, John MacLeod and Norman Campbell were witness Donald’s parents were John & Mary (Macdonald) Paterson tenants (register to hand)
D:1893 Jan 1st Ann (wife of Donald Paterson farm servant) Norman Campbell brother signed (register to hand)
1831 Elizabeth Campbell (register to hand)
D:1887 Jan 27th Elizabeth Campbell, housekeeper, Norman Campbell signs (register to hand)
1831 April 24th Joseph Campbell (register to hand)
1836 Norman Campbell (tenanted crofts 15 & 16 in 1892, then John Fraser tenanted both?)
D:1900 June 1st Norman Campbell, crofter, Morefield, Lochbroom,nephew John Fraser signed (register to hand)
1836 Alexis Campbell
1840 Catherine Campbell who had an illegitimate son John Fraser born in Dores, Inverness in 1857 to James Fraser (John Fraser lived at croft 16 until his death 26 March 26th 1931 – died at Pultney St, Ulapool age 78 -death certificate to hand)
D:1908 Sept 26th Catherine Campbell, pauper, 75, John Fraser, nephew signed (register to hand)