RootsChat.Com
Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: seemex on Wednesday 11 October 17 18:52 BST (UK)
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I am again turning to all of you experts at Rootschat to see if anyone can guess a location on these photos. I believe they are all of the same house. The photo was taken about 1924. I've examined the photos as far as I can in order to come to my conclusions,
I have reduced the photos to required sizes but may still need to post twice. The first two pictures are the front of the house. In close-up I found the name "Hazeldene" on the front gate. I recently came across a tiny clue in a reference to that name in a wedding announcement, listing the family home as Hazeldene, Littlehampton. All my family contacts in the south of England were Bournemouth, Torquay, and tat area, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that we had family a bit further east.
I've scanned street views of many towns using Google Earth. looking for house configurations that might match, but so far nothing. The reference to Littlehampton is by no means a certainty, just an option from a news clipping and the first time I've been able to link the "Hazeldene" to my family name "Hunter"
This one is a real challenge I'm afraid, with little to go on, at least from my point of view. I have no personal time in that part of England so I'm going strictly by old photo albums and whatever my research can uncover.
I also hope that posting under this heading is ok. It seems to be closest to what I am researching and your previous help has been amazing.
So, with that said, I will add the photos here and see where it goes. Many thanks.
Brian in Canada
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Seemex,
Sorry I can't assist with the photograph locations, but the attached file (https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1918/1918%20-%201122.PDF) (http://(https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1918/1918%20-%201122.PDF)) has the announcement of this same engagement in October 1918. This may help narrow down marriage dates, and from a copy of the marriage certificate, identify the address and location of the brides former home.
Further to the above, Googling his name brought up the attached info from an RAF site. (http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/ID/?7000248003) (http://(http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/ID/?7000248003))
Regards
Istrice
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There is a letter in The Times Nov 08, 1935 from a H D Spooner at that address.
In the same paper Jul 23, 1938 the property is being put up for sale by 'Harrods Ltd'
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There is a letter in The Times Nov 08, 1935 from a H D Spooner at that address.
In the same paper Jul 23, 1938 the property is being put up for sale by 'Harrods Ltd'
Is there an actual address? Is this the "Hazeldene" in Littlehampton that is mentioned? I can't find the newspaper article, but maybe I don't have access to it.
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The Hazeldene in Littlehampton was given as 8 St Catherine's Road.
Regards
Roger
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Can anyone find an actual marriage, I can't see one, I wonder if it took place abroad?
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The Hazeldene in Littlehampton was given as 8 St Catherine's Road.
Regards
Roger
Looking on Googlemaps, it doesn't look like the same house.
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Can anyone find an actual marriage, I can't see one, I wonder if it took place abroad?
Odd you should mention that. I had the same thought as I'm sure I've seen JEL Hunter with a different bride listed in North China Herald or maybe South China Morning Post
I also see a Muriel Jerome listed later on that fits so maybe the wedding didn't ever take place and he moved on and married someone else
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In other snippets Charles Jerome is given as of Granville Road,Littlehampton.Off to look at Google Earth.
Regards
Roger
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There is a letter in The Times Nov 08, 1935 from a H D Spooner at that address.
In the same paper Jul 23, 1938 the property is being put up for sale by 'Harrods Ltd'
Is there an actual address? Is this the "Hazeldene" in Littlehampton that is mentioned? I can't find the newspaper article, but maybe I don't have access to it.
The address is simply stated Hazeldene, Littlehampton. The Times is not part of the British Newspaper Archive so not on F M P but a separate website often available through local library county membership
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I'm not sure that this helps but here are the details from the 1891 Census:
Charles Christopher Bannister, M, Head, married, age 32, born London, Middlesex, occupation: living on own means Hazeldene 1891 Census
Rotherfield, Sussex
Carol
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Are Alwyn,Nora and Iris all surname Hunter/brothers and sisters? The name Alwyn is unusual.I can only find one Alwyn(n) Hunter,born in Goole 1909,died in service 1940,given resident Doncaster.He had a sister Iris,but I can't find a Nora.Do you have any other info on them?
Regards
Roger
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Can anyone find an actual marriage, I can't see one, I wonder if it took place abroad?
Odd you should mention that. I had the same thought as I'm sure I've seen JEL Hunter with a different bride listed in North China Herald or maybe South China Morning Post
The Times Monday, Nov 08, 1926
J E L Hunter (late R.N.A.S) only son of Mr & Mrs E L Hunter of Shanghai and Mrs Gwendolen Mary Cleaton Mulock only daughter of Mr & Mrs E R Cleaton took place quietly in London on Saturday ....
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I'm not sure that this helps but here are the details from the 1891 Census:
Charles Christopher Bannister, M, Head, married, age 32, born London, Middlesex, occupation: living on own means Hazeldene 1891 Census
Rotherfield, Sussex
Carol
Not sure that is the same Hazeldene as Rotherfield is East Sussex and not near Littlehampton.
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Flat 5, 8 St Catherines Road, Littlehampton, West Sussex ... -
22 Apr 2016 - 3 bedroom apartment for sale in Flat 5, 8 St Catherines Road, Littlehampton, West Sussex, BN17
I used the address given by Roger to find a match but the properties don't match the photo ::)
Edit: Apologies to Jan as she has already established this
Carol
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The Hazeldene in Littlehampton was given as 8 St Catherine's Road.
Regards
Roger
Where was that information given :-\
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The Hazeldene in Littlehampton was given as 8 St Catherine's Road.
Regards
Roger
Here it is Rosie.
Carol
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Sorry Carol I should have been clearer, I was directing the question at Roger ;D
ADDED
It does have a house name on the last census but not the one we are looking for
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No worries...I just looked on FindMyPast newspapers and that was the address given when the property was put up for sale in 1938 as mentioned earlier.
Carol
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Thank you Carol ;D
I think from the F M P 1938 report we can probably rule out both of The Times articles I mentioned earlier. The trouble is Hazeldene is quite a common name for a house, there is one near me :)
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Thank you Carol ;D
I think from the F M P 1938 report we can probably rule out both of The Times articles I mentioned earlier. The trouble is Hazeldene is quite a common name for a house, there is one near me :)
Very common - my uncle lived in a bungalow called that but his was on the Isle of Sheppey!
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Can anyone find an actual marriage, I can't see one, I wonder if it took place abroad?
You could be right Jan..I wonder if this is the same person:
Muriel Irena
Last name Jerome
Birth year 1896-1900
Place JOHANNESBURG
Country South Africa
Volume 10
Page 97
Record source GRO Consular Birth Indices (1849 to 1965)
Carol
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Brilliant, Carol, that's her!
She appears in the UK, Physiotherapy and Masseuse Registers, 1895 -1980 and guess what her address is?
Hazeldene
St Catherine's Road
Littlehampton
Date is 28th Dec 1917 certificate number 4789, under that is written minor, so I guess she was under 21. Her training was at The National Hospital
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Yeah....nice work Jan...That was on FindMyPast...I got called away just as I opened Ancestry ::) ;D ;D
Carol
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Can anyone find an actual marriage, I can't see one, I wonder if it took place abroad?
Odd you should mention that. I had the same thought as I'm sure I've seen JEL Hunter with a different bride listed in North China Herald or maybe South China Morning Post
The Times Monday, Nov 08, 1926
J E L Hunter (late R.N.A.S) only son of Mr & Mrs E L Hunter of Shanghai and Mrs Gwendolen Mary Cleaton Mulock only daughter of Mr & Mrs E R Cleaton took place quietly in London on Saturday ....
There seems to be a discrepancy in this J E L Hunter. I have seen him listed at RAF DFC but also showing as the ONLY son of E L Hunter of Shanghai. Now this is a different wife name completely!
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Brilliant, Carol, that's her!
She appears in the UK, Physiotherapy and Masseuse Registers, 1895 -1980 and guess what her address is?
Hazeldene
St Catherine's Road
Littlehampton
Date is 28th Dec 1917 certificate number 4789, under that is written minor, so I guess she was under 21. Her training was at The National Hospital
Well done Carol & Groom. The last census has a House different name for No 8 ::) As said previously the houses in St Catherines bear no resemblance to the photo though.
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That's the strange thing isn't it - the houses in St Catherine's road don't look anything like the photo. Is the name just a coincidence I wonder and the photo isn't Littlehampton?
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I've just wandered down St Catherines Road ( courtesy of Google Streetview) and there are new blocks of flats at the beginning of the road, so possibly "our" house i.e. number 8 has been demolished. The first house seems to be number 14.
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Isn't the key likely to be the named people in the photographs and their families.Who are they?
Regards
Roger
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I've just wandered down St Catherines Road ( courtesy of Google Streetview) and there are new blocks of flats at the beginning of the road, so possibly "our" house i.e. number 8 has been demolished. The first house seems to be number 14.
I did the same, Jan, and wondered if they were rebuilt or WW2 damage. It might be worth looking at a map of the time to see if the roads have changed.
Added - I'm sure there are some threads on here about WW2 damage in Littlehampton.
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Are Alwyn,Nora and Iris all surname Hunter/brothers and sisters? The name Alwyn is unusual.I can only find one Alwyn(n) Hunter,born in Goole 1909,died in service 1940,given resident Doncaster.He had a sister Iris,but I can't find a Nora.Do you have any other info on them?
Regards
Roger
Roger,
Iris and Nora were both surname Hunter, and were sisters. Alwyn was their cousin, last name was Cock. The girls were born in Hong Kong and their cousin in Shanghai. They were all in the UK attending school so would not show on any UK documentation other than passenger lists.
The Hunter family is from Manchester originally and Cock from Scotland, India and finally China.
The Hunters that I am tracing were on the passage back to China from Rotterdam in Sept 1928. There were four extra Hunter family on the ship. Jack L Hunter and his wife may have been two of those four. I think maybe the Jack E L Hunter is not the correct Hunter but just has a same name
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Here's one thread - maybe more:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=395277.0
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There seems to be a discrepancy in this J E L Hunter. I have seen him listed at RAF DFC but also showing as the ONLY son of E L Hunter of Shanghai. Now this is a different wife name completely!
Daily Record 01 December 1917 - Distinguished service awards
DSC
Flt sub Lt John Ellis Langford Hunter R.N.A.S
Dec qtr 1926
Hunter John E L
Mulock Gwendolen M C
St.Geo.H.Sq. 1a 1036a
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Does this help to confirm or ignore?
John Ellis Langford Hunter
Baptism : 6 Mar 1897
Hackney, Hackney, England
Father: Ellis Lister Hunter
Mother: Mary Williamson Hunter
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Came onto this clipping from 1918 South China Morning Post. Sorry, don't know how to add a PDF that length other than to attach
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That's interesting as it gives his father as H.E.R Hunter and his uncle as Ellis Lister Hunter, yet the baptism gives his father as Ellis.
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Re: the Hunter-Jerome engagement announcement was Dec 24, 1918 and ran in the South China Morning Post
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Here is his death
John Ellis Langford Hunter
Death18 Jun 1971
High Court Provincial Division: Cape Town, The Western Cape, South Africa
Estate Number: 3310/1971
Will: YES
Customary Law: NO
Spouse: Gwendolen Mary Cleaton (3215/1974) Hunter
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That's interesting as it gives his father as H.E.R Hunter and his uncle as Ellis Lister Hunter, yet the baptism gives his father as Ellis.
Yes, it's all very confusing. Both H E R Hunter and E L Hunter were in Shanghai around 1915 as another clipping shows a nephew of theirs getting married. E L ( presumably Ellis ) Hunter lived at 1a Hankow Road, Shanghai.
H E R Hunter ( Harry ) was with the Bank ( probably HKSB ) and died in 1924 in England
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Ellis Lister Hunter died in Japan in 1927
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Here is his death
John Ellis Langford Hunter
Death18 Jun 1971
High Court Provincial Division: Cape Town, The Western Cape, South Africa
Estate Number: 3310/1971
Will: YES
Customary Law: NO
Spouse: Gwendolen Mary Cleaton (3215/1974) Hunter
Ok, I think this info is correct and is the J E L Hunter we are looking at.
I have to go write all this down and think about it. I think the dates need to be considered more closely as it appears he may have moved about to some degree. And I still don't know if he or any of this bunch are who I'm looking for and if they are indeed related.
The house photo ID should be my main clue, if it turns out to be a family member. On the other hand, it could be friends in UK who received the girls when they began school?
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John Ellis Langford Hunter attended Bedford Modern School (date of birth 31 Jan 1897 ) His father is named as Ellis Lister Hunter.
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Why does that photo of 'Hazeldene' not make me think of a property so close to the sea :-\ The properties either side of those flats in St Catherines are the same design as each other, I would be expecting the ones that were destroyed to be the same.
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HUNTER, JOHN ELLIS LANGFORD mmn GOODING
1897 M Quarter
HACKNEY
Volume 01B Page 509
Ellis Lister Hunter and later John Ellis Langford Hunter seem to have travelled backwards and forwards to China via Canada and America.
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Ellis Lister Hunter died in Japan in 1927
Interesting! I really think now that the Jack L Hunter I am looking at, is different from the J E L Hunter, although more coincidences appear. My Jack L Hunter died at 532 Ave Haig, Shanghai in 1945, and my grandfather and family lived at 799 Ave Haig in 1928 before moving back to their home in Columbia Circle, Amherst Road.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_E._L._Hunter
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My Jack L Hunter died at 532 Ave Haig, Shanghai in 1945
So two completely different people with similar lives, as John Ellis Langford Hunter died in South Africa in 1971 (as posted earlier)
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Good afternoon,
Can't see st view as I don't get it on my tablet. However if memory serves me correctly the houses on St Catherines rd are semi's, the photo's show a detached house. Opposite is a grass area with Beach rd on the far side.
I'm thinking more over towards Rustington or maybe Bognor. I seem to recall similar looking houses there.
Demolition gang member no 1 is here and is using the laptop. So will have to wait until later when I return from the rifle club and he's in bed.
John915
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My Jack L Hunter died at 532 Ave Haig, Shanghai in 1945
So two completely different people with similar lives, as John Ellis Langford Hunter died in South Africa in 1971 (as posted earlier)
Yes, it seems so. I guess them all having China connections gave me to wonder and I still don't know that they're not connected in some way, but the Jack L Hunter and J E L Hunter are indeed different people ( born a year apart too by the looks of it ) Back to the "house ID " :)
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I can't find no. 8, St.Catherine's road on 1939 register unless it was bombed as gadget said during WW2. It was sold in 1938.
You have names for the people in the photos...is this fact or Guess work?
Muriel Jerome as I found earlier was born in South Africa and as Groom found...was resident at the Hazeldene address.
Is this significant or an irrelevant fact?
Carol
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I may be barking up the wrong tree, but if I was shown these photos out of context, they strike me as being a bit later than 1924. This is definitely a 1920's style house, so in 1924 it would have been pretty much brand new. It looks to me like its much more established than a new property......just saying....
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I'm not sure if there is any relevance to this,or just coincidence,but there is a 1925 record for Mr C. Jerome and wife leaving for South Africa.The UK address is given as Southlands,Littlehampton.
This property is on South Terrace,Littehampton and if you look at the 1911 census for South Terrace you will find a Hunter family with a Shanghai connection.
Regards
Roger
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I can't find no. 8, St.Catherine's road on 1939 register unless it was bombed as gadget said during WW2. It was sold in 1938.
It would have been on the 1939 as the war had just about started. ;D ;D
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I'm not sure if there is any relevance to this,or just coincidence,but there is a 1925 record for Mr C. Jerome and wife leaving for South Africa.The UK address is given as Southlands,Littlehampton.
This property is on South Terrace,Littehampton and if you look at the 1911 census for South Terrace you will find a Hunter family with a Shanghai connection.
Regards
Roger
Typical, most of that road has been redeveloped, but the older houses don't look like the photo.
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I may be barking up the wrong tree, but if I was shown these photos out of context, they strike me as being a bit later than 1924. This is definitely a 1920's style house, so in 1924 it would have been pretty much brand new. It looks to me like its much more established than a new property......just saying....
I agree. Also Alwyn Cock was apparently born in 1908 so would only have been 16 in 1924. He looks older in the photograph.
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I wasn't suggesting that the building was on South Terrace.The data simply reinforces the identity of the Hunter family concerned.
The head of the Hunter family in 1911 at South Terrace is Mary Williamson Hunter(nee Gooding),wife of Ellis Hunter and therefore mother of JEL Hunter as per the biography linked by Rosie99.
Regards
Roger
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The head of the Hunter family in 1911 at South Terrace is Mary Williamson Hunter(nee Gooding),wife of Ellis Hunter and therefore mother of JEL Hunter as per the biography linked by Rosie99.
So we can eliminate them as seemex has decided they are the wrong family.
I wonder if we are following a complete red herring with the suggestion that the house is in Littlehampton?
Seemex, are you certain that the girls are the family you are following? I presume they were sent back to England to go to school, when was that, do you know? Where were relatives of the family living in England then as the chances are they stopped with them in holidays?
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I've been re-looking at the photo of the family in the garden. At the extreeme left, there is a view of the opposite house, which has quite a few steps going up to the front door. I'm sure there are some like that at the southern end of St Catherines Road - near the block of flats ~
(Not sure if anyone has notcied this before - if so, sorry :-\ )
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If that's right Gadget, and I'm sure given your expertise on looking at photos that it is, to my mind that gives us two more clues:
1. There are houses opposite, not the green area.
2. If there are steps going up to that house, could it mean the land is higher i.e a slight hill?
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I used to be able to link to a Street View but can't find the button now ::) ???
Anyway, have a look at 21 St C in Street View - very similar houses to the one I've clipped. Maybe those to the south were deolished and rebuilt or the road was renumbered at some stage.
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No 8's on the opposite side of road to 21 - corner site with Irvine Road
Doesn't look like the original front but the backs look similar - chimney, etc. You can get a wee look if you pop around the corner and look back!
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Could be another red herring,but I think the Jack L Hunter who dies in Shanghai in 1945
(born 1886) marries ,circa 1925,a Helen M Wrigley,born c.1895 Bromley,Kent.
There appears to be quite a number of properties(as well as people) called Hazeldene in Bromley.
I'll see what I can find further,but,as Captain Oates is reported to have said as he left the tent..I may be some while..
Regards
Roger
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The head of the Hunter family in 1911 at South Terrace is Mary Williamson Hunter(nee Gooding),wife of Ellis Hunter and therefore mother of JEL Hunter as per the biography linked by Rosie99.
So we can eliminate them as seemex has decided they are the wrong family.
I wonder if we are following a complete red herring with the suggestion that the house is in Littlehampton?
Seemex, are you certain that the girls are the family you are following? I presume they were sent back to England to go to school, when was that, do you know? Where were relatives of the family living in England then as the chances are they stopped with them in holidays?
First, the Littlehampton very well could be wrong as we've now eliminated that other Hunter family as being related.
As to the girls...I'm sure of them. They are my mother and her sister and Alwyn is their cousin. My Mother was born in 1911 and her sister in 1912, both in Hong Kong. They were sent to school in England from 1924 until 1928. The school was in Bournemouth, and they spent time with friends in and around that part of the country. They also spent time in Torquay on holidays.
Alwyn was born in 1908 in Shanghai and was also attending school. Two of his younger sisters also went to school with my mother in Bournemouth. I believe the Cock family ( Alwyn's parents ) also maintained a home or rented a home in England for some of that period.
In the house photo the girls appear younger than when they finished school in 1928 years later. I also have a couple of photos of a group that was taken in the same back yard and my grandmother was there. The only time they were all there together was in 1924 when she and my grandfather accompanied the girls to England to begin school. My dates are based on those facts.
In light of what has been discovered I think its maybe more likely that the house in the picture would be in the Bournemouth or Torquay areas and that the clipping threw me off.
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Could be another red herring,but I think the Jack L Hunter who dies in Shanghai in 1945
(born 1886) marries ,circa 1925,a Helen M Wrigley,born c.1895 Bromley,Kent.
There appears to be quite a number of properties(as well as people) called Hazeldene in Bromley.
I'll see what I can find further,but,as Captain Oates is reported to have said as he left the tent..I may be some while..
Regards
Roger
Yes Roger, I came up with him too. Jack Leicester Hunter, son of Leonard and Jeanette Hunter of Manchester. That would be a good possibility as my Hunters are originally from Manchester, although as yet I haven't been able to link to a Leonard Hunter. He married Helen Margaret Wrigley and died in Shanghai in 1945 following cycling accident. Looks like maybe they were separated or divorced as a notice was sent to her in c/o the Bank in Melbourne, Australia in 1945. She died in UK in 1965. I've saved what I found in case it proves out.
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Check out no.56 Talbot Road, Bournemouth for the first two houses. Tried to post a Google photo but no luck.
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Check out no.56 Talbot Road, Bournemouth for the first two houses. Tried to post a Google photo but no luck.
Wow! I really like that! The little diamond shaped window by the entrance way is there and the roof over the front door, even the large fir trees look like they are in the right spot. The window configuration looks good too. Going back to look some more.
It really looks like the place and the other houses fit too. I am looking at the lighter colored house as being the correct one....of the two that have diamond windows. Do you agree?
Now just have to figure out who lived there 1924-1928
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Wow, don't know how you did that BrazilianBombshell, but I'm 99% certain that's the right house - number 58! Number 56 is identical as well as are the chimneys on number 54.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kw4/
That's brilliant work!
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Wow, don't know how you did that BrazilianBombshell, but I'm 99% certain that's the right house - number 58! Number 56 is identical as well as are the chimneys on number 54.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kw4/
That's brilliant work!
Everyone at Rootschat is amazing! Talk about a needle in a haystack!
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Got there in the end didn't we! I'd love to know how BB did that so quickly after you mentioned Bournemouth.
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Just to clinch the deal...here's a shot of the back side in the garden, that up until recently I wasn't positive was taken at the same house. No doubt about it now as from Google the back wall configuration is dead on!
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Ancestry have Dorset Electoral Registers but unless I'm looking in the wrong place I don't think they have Bournemouth.
https://www.dorsetforyou.gov.uk/dorsethistorycentre/electoralregisters
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Another view of the front (copyright Google Earth)
Regards
Roger
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In the last census available,there is a school on Talbot Road.
Regards
Roger
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I wonder if they used those houses as residences for the boarding students?
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It appears to me that the property is on the inside of the "conical" section of this 1924 map as it bends around.It is not there in the 1909 map and I'm fairly sure it does not appear in the 1911 census.
https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/408500/93500/12/101215
Regards
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Was your mother at a Boarding School, Seemex, if so you could probably track down which one? Looks to me as if this is just a private house, so probably belonged to friends or relatives of the family. It could be the one the Cocks rented.
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58 Talbot Road Bournemouth was the country home of Captain William James Icke per the 1939 "Royal Blue Book Court and Parliamentary Guide".
Added #1: it is also the country address for him in the 1934 London PO Directory.
Added #2: it appears to have been the residence of his sister Margaret Catherine Icke.
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When I saw the photos, it reminded of Bournemouth houses I have driven past. Google maps helped a great deal. Google said it was no. 56, but I should have checked, sorry. After 3 hours searching it was over my bed time, so I went with Google...posted it, and went to bed.
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Well done BB...Great bit of detective work 8)
Carol
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Well done BB...Great bit of detective work 8)
Carol
I have to agree with Carol - Well done BB.
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Yes,excellent find BB.
Just to provide final proof,there is an announcement in Tatler in 1952 of the engagenment of the granddaughter of the Captain Icke referred to,"...of Hazeldene,Talbot Road,Bournemouth..."
Regards
Roger
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The Times of 2 November 1929 has an engagement announcement for William James Icke and Eileen Winifred Hunter, only daughter of Mr & Mrs Horace Hunter.
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there is an announcement in Tatler in 1952 of the engagenment of the granddaughter of the Captain Icke referred to,"...of Hazeldene,Talbot Road,Bournemouth..."
The only Icke announcement I can see in the Tatler in 1952 is not for a granddaughter of W J Icke, but "only daughter of Captain H J G Icke MC" of Hazeldene, Talbot Road Bournemouth. Presumably a niece of W J I.
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Yes,ShaunJ,the same announcement-I assumed the relationship.
Regards
Roger
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Amazing find BB.... I'm so impressed I'm sending you an award....
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Love it Andy ;D ;D ;D
Carol
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Thank you all very much, and for the award! I now feel very slightly vindicated, having spent hours and hours and hours last year on Cazza's 12A...which I feel is also in Bournemouth.
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Oh no! Why did you have to mention Cazza's 12a? I know what's going to happen now..
Regards
Roger
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The Times of 2 November 1929 has an engagement announcement for William James Icke and Elieen Winifred Hunter, only daughter of Mr & Mrs Horace Hunter.
That's a good find as it looks as if it ties it up neatly with the Hunter family.
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Shaun, Roger, BB, etc,
Do you ever sleep? :) Amazing finds and I'm not sure what it all means yet but it certainly seems to fit in man ways. As usual it's a bit too much for coincidence.
First, I also, sort of arrived at #58 on Google, but 56 was acceptable for me....but I guess #58 nails it better.
Another thing I did last night was search on Ancestry for anyone my Hunter family was associated with during the school days, which by the way was Bournemouth High School for Girls at that time.
In 1924-28 it was on a pie shaped section bounded by Norwich, Suffolk and Cambridge. The school later became Talbot Heath and moved further north to a new property. I believe it is located there today.
So the first name I tried was Frederick Nash, who was a lawyer the family knew in Hong Kong. There are many references to the Nash family in my mother's 1928 diary, but none at the Talbot Rd address. However, to my surprise, when I entered Frederick Nash the first thing that came up was the 1911 Census and the address is #3 Talbot Road, Winton, Bournemouth. The others listed on this census are not names I'm familiar with at all, but this could have been the father of the Frederick E Nash that we knew. It could have been he that owned the home at 58 Talbot. He resided in Hong Kong and as far as I know, he died there. His wife lived in Surbiton but during the school years she and her own young children were in Bournemouth and my mother and her sister visited them often.
Now this new find, Horace Hunter, and the Winifred Eileen? Never heard of them but there's much I don't know. My mother's sister, Nora, had the middle name "Eileen" so one never knows.
I believe a new search has begun!
Again, I can't say heap enough praise on you all for your hours of work! The tasks seem to me all but impossible, and with so little information to go on, that I feel embarrassed to even post the question in the first place....and yet...you never fail!
Thank you, thank you, thank you all!
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Interesting school
http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/14453074.PICTURES__The_school_that_shocked_Victorian_Bournemouth__Talbot_Heath_turns_130/
Had some well known pupils including: Fanny Cradock, Dilys Powell, Pat Smythe. Shirley Williams, (Baroness Williams of Crosby) and Virginia Wade
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The Times of 2 November 1929 has an engagement announcement for William James Icke and Elieen Winifred Hunter, only daughter of Mr & Mrs Horace Hunter.
I see an Eileen Winifred Hunter, on 1911 Census as well as being listed on a few different years Electoral registers in the 1930s. If it is the same person, it looks like the marriage to Icke did not happen. The later register listings are mostly in Tooting, and all seem to have the #39 but at three different streets? Lucien Road. Mantilla Road, and Lewis Road. Coincidentally, my Great Grandfather William Leyland Hunter died at Lucien Road in 1894.
He had a wife Eleanor ( died in 1924 ) and a son and daughter William L and Evaline Ellen, who lived in Holborn.
It's all very close but making definite links is difficult. Still, it all too close to just be written off as coincidence
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The Times of 2 November 1929 has an engagement announcement for William James Icke and Elieen Winifred Hunter, only daughter of Mr & Mrs Horace Hunter.
I see an Eileen Winifred Hunter, on 1911 Census as well as being listed on a few different years Electoral registers in the 1930s. If it is the same person, it looks like the marriage to Icke did not happen. The later register listings are mostly in Tooting, and all seem to have the #39 but at three different streets? Lucien Road. Mantilla Road, and Lewis Road. Coincidentally, my Great Grandfather William Leyland Hunter died at Lucien Road in 1894.
He had a wife Eleanor ( died in 1924 ) and a son and daughter William L and Evaline Ellen, who lived in Holborn.
It's all very close but making definite links is difficult. Still, it all too close to just be written off as coincidence
Not sure that is the same one, as the marriage says she is the daughter of Horace Hunter, the one in 1911 is the daughter of Charles Malcolm Hunter. Again just a coincidence in the names.
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The address given in The Times in 1929 for Horace Hunter is 145 Finborough Road, Earls Court, SW5.
There's a 1944 marriage announcement for Eileen, daughter of Mr & Mrs Horace Hunter to Major W D (Peter) Noble, 27th Lancers.
W J Icke's executor (on his death in 1960) was a William Dickson Noble.
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I can't connect either the Horace Hunter or the Charles Malcolm Hunter to any of my family but that doesn't mean something won't turn up down the road. They're both worth some extra study on my part.
My Hunters are ( were ) mostly from Manchester area. My GG Grandfather was in the tea business at St Anns Square, and others were in cotton and engineering trades. Other than William Leyland Hunter or "Shanghai Bill" as he was referred to because he went off to China in 1865, the rest stayed around the Manchester locale.
My own line comes down from "Bill" and the family he began out in China. It seems he eventually tired of the Orient and after about 20 years he returned to London, where he married and started a second family. He died at the ripe old age of 49.
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If I've followed this correctly W J Icke lived in the house BB identified in Talbot Road, where your mother stayed. So the fact that he became engaged to a Hunter must mean there is some connection, even if only distant.
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If I've followed this correctly W J Icke lived in the house BB identified in Talbot Road, where your mother stayed. So the fact that he became engaged to a Hunter must mean there is some connection, even if only distant.
Yes, one would certainly think so. I've never heard mention of the names before, but that means nothing really. It's a world a way and several lifetimes. At least with the UK relatives there's somewhere to look. The stuff in the Orient is all but impossible now, IF it ever was in the first place. Still, each new link gives new hope . It's like buying a 10,000 piece jig-saw puzzle and after years putting the whole thing together, you find that the box wasn't complete! There's still a great big gap in the middle! :)
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The address given in The Times in 1929 for Horace Hunter is 145 Finborough Road, Earls Court, SW5.
There's a 1944 marriage announcement for Eileen, daughter of Mr & Mrs Horace Hunter to Major W D (Peter) Noble, 27th Lancers.
W J Icke's executor (on his death in 1960) was a William Dickson Noble.
The address given for Horace Hunter and his wife (Lily) in 1944 is the same as the one in 1939. Both Horace and Lily were actors.
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The address given in The Times in 1929 for Horace Hunter is 145 Finborough Road, Earls Court, SW5.
There's a 1944 marriage announcement for Eileen, daughter of Mr & Mrs Horace Hunter to Major W D (Peter) Noble, 27th Lancers.
W J Icke's executor (on his death in 1960) was a William Dickson Noble.
The address given for Horace Hunter and his wife (Lily) in 1944 is the same as the one in 1939. Both Horace and Lily were actors.
There is a picture postcard on Ebay of Horace Hunter, English stage actor, early 1900's.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kwa/
I've been following this thread and once again I am amazed that Rootschat detectives can find so much from so little information. A special well done to BB :D
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It does seem that W J Icke's engagement to Eileen Winifred Hunter was called off. She was a spinster when she married W D Noble in Alexandria in April 1944. She recorded her surname as Hunter-Smith, and her father as William Horace Hunter-Smith, actor.
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Eileen Winifred Hunter Smith born Camberwell 1Q 1909, mmn Phillips
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So is this Hunter connection another red herring and was just his stage name that he adopted?
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Just casting round for other strands/connections/coincidences I am struggling to find anything.
The other Hunters in Littlehampton in 1911,Mary W,Victoria and Barbara at 5 South Terrace,look like they travelled back to China as a group in 1920,though Barbara alone as a schoolgirl travelled in 1916.
The wife of Charles Malcolm Hunter is given as Sarah Bate Hunter,though I can't see a marriage to a Sarah Bate.There is,however,a record of an E.R.Bate travelling with a Miss Hunter to China in 1911.
Can't connect either strand to your family.Nor can I find the occupants in 1891 of the house in Lucien Road(AilsaCraig),where your relative died in 1894.
Regards
Roger
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Can't connect either strand to your family.Nor can I find the occupants in 1891 of the house in Lucien Road(AilsaCraig),where your relative died in 1894.
Regards
Roger
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Roger; his is the death certificate. Maybe it was some sort of care facility? Or maybe the sister in law's place, Elizabeth Johnston?
copyright image removed
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Death announcement from the Evening Standard, 12 March 1894
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Death announcement from the Evening Standard, 12 March 1894
Wow! I have never seen that! My great grandfather! Unbelievable! Thanks so much, Shaun!
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I have new information on this topic.
Mate’s Street directories for 1923 and 1924 have this information:
#56 Talbot Road: Mr and Mrs W. A. Walters
#58 Talbot Road: Miss C. V. Gardner
#56 "Sandon" Mr and Mrs W. A. Walters
#58 "Hazledene" Miss C.V. Gardner
The Electoral Roll gives their full names:
#56: William Arthur Walters and Martha Jane Walters
#58: Clare Victoria Gardner and Dorothy Mildred Gardner.
Both addresses were checked and the second one, #58 appears to be the one that pertains to my "Hunter Family" It now looks like this Gardner family must have been the owners in 1923 and 1924.
I'm still unable to connect the dots, other that I know it's the right house.