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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: Tessa Spencer on Thursday 12 October 17 06:52 BST (UK)

Title: Ellen Coles b.1865 Coventry?
Post by: Tessa Spencer on Thursday 12 October 17 06:52 BST (UK)
Ellen may have been born illegitimately to Henrietta Wesley in Coventry Workhouse in 1865.
In 1886 she emigrated to Albany, Australia with husband Frederick George Coles (I have no details about his origins. His occupation on his son's marriage certificate in 1919 is Seaman, Merchant Service). I can't find a marriage for them.
In Australia she had children Rose Florence b.1891, William Henry b.1893, Frederick George b.1896 and possibly another with first name initial H. In 1898 he left her husband and bought the children back from Albany to London via Cape Colony. A family member says she returned to her own family in Coventry.
Her son Frederick George's military record says she was living at 66 Junction Rd, Coventry in 1916, but had also lived at 31 Weston St. I can't find her on any census.
In 1901 her children Rose and Frederick were boarding with Mrs Maycock, launderess, in Ryton-on-Dunsmore. Her other son William Henry was in Coventry and Warwickshire Hospital. But where was she?
I'm also interested in her husband. Where was he born and did he stay in Australia? I found a Frederick George labouring in Coolgardie, Australia in 1903 and 1906. Did he join the Merchant Navy?
I'd be very grateful for any help.
Title: Re: Ellen Coles b.1865 Coventry?
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 12 October 17 07:23 BST (UK)
Where & when did Ellen marry, do you have her on census in England
Title: Re: Ellen Coles b.1865 Coventry?
Post by: Tessa Spencer on Thursday 12 October 17 08:59 BST (UK)
If Ellen was the illegitimate daughter of Henrietta Westley, in 1871 she was probably living 34 St Johns Street, Coventry, described as niece of William (b.1817 Coventry) and Sarah Westley, but could have been their granddaughter. Living in the same house were William and Sarah's children, one of whom was Henrietta. Also what looks like Ellen's brother William.
This is the only census record I have found but I'm not convinced it is right.
Title: Re: Ellen Coles b.1865 Coventry?
Post by: Tessa Spencer on Thursday 12 October 17 09:10 BST (UK)
Also should have said I can't find a marriage for Ellen and Frederick
Title: Re: Ellen Coles b.1865 Coventry?
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 12 October 17 11:41 BST (UK)
I think that 1871 census could be right with Ellen & William wrongly described as Niece/Nephew.  In 1881 Henrietta had son William with her also another son Thomas bn 1873.

Her son Frederick George's military record says she was living at 66 Junction Rd, Coventry in 1916, but had also lived at 31 Weston St. I can't find her on any census.

Have you checked these addresses in 1911 or looked for Henrietta's sons on this census  ;)  :)
Title: Re: Ellen Coles b.1865 Coventry?
Post by: lizdb on Thursday 12 October 17 11:53 BST (UK)
The 1898 incoming passenger list has an H Cole and a E Cole, both adults, and then R Cole, W Cole and F Cole.

Do we know who the H Cole was that returned with them?
Title: Re: Ellen Coles b.1865 Coventry?
Post by: trish1120 on Thursday 12 October 17 12:45 BST (UK)
May be useful in the future if you dont already have it;

Marriage;
Sept 1852, St Michael and All Angels, Coventry
William WESTLEY, 35, Widr, Weaver, abode Little Park Street, Father JOHN, a Grocer
Sarah HAMMERSLEY, 27, Widow, Father Thomas RUSHTON, a Engineer
Witnesses, Skears Rew WESTLEY, Ellen RUSHTON
(FreeREG)

Williams 1st Marriage is there also 1841

Henrietta Christened St Michael, Coventry;
ELLEN 7 Sept 1868*******
THOMAS 21 Aug 1868, birth 22 May 1868
WILLIAM GARLAND Westley 21 April 1871, birth 4 Nov 1870

Have you ruled this out for Ellen?
Name:   Ellen Henrietta Coles
Death Place:   South Australia
Registration Year:   1926-1930
Registration Place:   South Australia
Page Number:   379
Volume Number:   496



Ellen Henrietta Coles
Birth:    unknown
Death:    Jul. 8, 1927
Burial:
West Terrace Cemetery
Adelaide
Adelaide City
South Australia, Australia
Plot: RC West Gnd
Title: Re: Ellen Coles b.1865 Coventry?
Post by: wivenhoe on Thursday 12 October 17 13:10 BST (UK)
BDM WA birth

COLE  Rose Florence          parents George  / Wesley Ellen      @ Albany   409  1891
COLE  William Henry          parents George  / Westley Ellen     @  Albany   1197  1893 
COLE  Frederick Charles     parents  George /  Westley Ellen   @ Albany   2099  1896   

Where do you see father as Frederick George COLES?.

The birth certificate, 1896, will ask for details of parents origins, and will be useful to you.

Use   http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx

to find WESTLEYs in WA .

The Daily News 14 Feb 1899 p3
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/82400107?
...incident mentions crewman George COLE......
Title: Re: Ellen Coles b.1865 Coventry?
Post by: Tessa Spencer on Thursday 12 October 17 17:22 BST (UK)
Frederick George Coles is named as William's father, on his marriage certificate when he married Lena Rose Richards in Swansea in 1919. Frederick George is described as Seaman, Merchant Service
I found Frederick and Ellen travelling to Australia in 1886 on cargo steamship 'Elderslie' out of London going to Albany. I guess Frederick planned to be a gold prospector and indeed Coolgardie where I think I found him was a prospecting area. One scenario is that Ellen returned to England as the children were ill and this could be borne out by the fact that William was in hospital in 1901 in Coventry. The travel manifest does say that H Cole was a farmer and F Cole was a lady so perhaps this is not the same family at all. The older members of the family said that Ellen left her husband in Australia and returned to UK, with the suggestion that she had had enough of the hard life there.
Thanks for the background for Ellen. If it IS her death in Australia she must have returned to be with her husband. I will look for her travel documentation.
Yes I have looked for her other children, but I can't find them on the 1911 census. In 1916 in Frederick George's military record (Ellen's son) his sister Rose is said to be living at 30 Springfield Rd Coventry and his brother William was living in Berkwell. I have yet to search for Ellen at Junction Rd in the 1911 census. Not sure the quickest way to do that.
Thanks for all your efforts
Title: Re: Ellen Coles b.1865 Coventry?
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 12 October 17 17:36 BST (UK)
You can search FindMyPast 1911 by address. 

Ancestry  using this link http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=2352
Only complete - Lived in with Coventry then put street name in keyword.
You can also just add a surname if you want to try & eliminate
Title: Re: Ellen Coles b.1865 Coventry?
Post by: wivenhoe on Friday 13 October 17 01:58 BST (UK)
It is important to be faithful to the way you see information recorded, and that you are giving a forum to use.

The children are registered at birth, WA, as COLE, not COLES.

Rose and Fred, census 1901, are COLE not COLES.

If these children were separated early in life it is possible there would be a variation in how they spell their name.

William Henry in the Coventry and Warwickshire Hospital........can you locate that more clearly please...I am not seeing it. How is he named....age, birthplace.

Frederick George's military record....how is mother named.....Mrs COLES. Mrs Ellen COLES, Mrs E COLES.....what......exactly as recorded please.

What was  Frederick George's address at enlistment.....same as for mother?

Is there an address for him when he is discharged?

Who are the witnesses on his marriage certificate?

They went to Australia, 1886..........so, no children for five years, then three children in seven years?

"...I found Frederick and Ellen travelling to Australia in 1886 ..."
How do you see them named on the "Elderslie".......exactly as you see the names please.

You need to see the 1896 birth certificate.

Title: Re: Ellen Coles b.1865 Coventry?
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 13 October 17 10:34 BST (UK)
William Henry in the Coventry and Warwickshire Hospital........can you locate that more clearly please...I am not seeing it. How is he named....age, birthplace.

1901 ref RG13/2910 f176 p40
Stoney Stanton Road (continued)  St Marks, Coventry
William Coles -Patient- age9- born Australia

f175 p37  indicates it is the Coventry and Warwickshire Hospital

This looks like Rose on the last census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWZK-51P