RootsChat.Com

General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: nanny jan on Wednesday 18 October 17 22:27 BST (UK)

Title: WW2 Italy Star
Post by: nanny jan on Wednesday 18 October 17 22:27 BST (UK)
I've just received a service record which shows the Italy Star among the medals awarded but can only find references to going to Gibraltar then BNAF (British North Africa Force). So far I have been unable to find (decipher) any reference to Italy. Why was he awarded the Italy Star?

My first set of Army records and they are challenging!

Title: Re: WW2 Italy Star
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 18 October 17 22:32 BST (UK)
Was he Army, Navy or Air Force?

There's a list of eligibility criteria on this page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy_Star

Basically, it says (of service ashore):
Qualifying service on land by Army personnel, Naval shore-based personnel and Air Force non-air crew was entry into operational service as part of the establishment in the following areas, all dates inclusive:

    Aegean from 11 June 1943 to 8 May 1945.
    Corsica from 11 June to 4 October 1943.
    Dodecanese from 11 June 1943 to 8 May 1945.
    Greece from 11 June 1943 to 8 May 1945.
    Italy, including Elba, from 11 June 1943 to 8 May 1945.
    Pantellaria on 11 June 1943.
    Sardinia from 11 June to 19 September 1943.
    Sicily from 11 June to 17 August 1943.
    Yugoslavia from 11 June 1943 to 8 May 1945.
Title: Re: WW2 Italy Star
Post by: nanny jan on Wednesday 18 October 17 22:54 BST (UK)
He was Army.

I did check for eligibility but could find none of those areas; I can see Gibraltar, then BNAF and that is it.
All those military abbreviations and different handwriting are taking time to work out! Will look again with fresh eyes in the morning.

Thanks for your help KG.
Title: Re: WW2 Italy Star
Post by: MaxD on Thursday 19 October 17 10:22 BST (UK)
Just to add that, confusingly, although CMF (Central Mediterranean Force) was the correct title for the Italy/Balkans theatre of war from July 1943, the previous designation BNAF is often seen in service records long after the man/unit has moved from North Africa to Sicily/Italy.

MaxD
Title: Re: WW2 Italy Star
Post by: nanny jan on Thursday 19 October 17 10:24 BST (UK)
Thanks MaxD........still looking for his move in the record!
Title: Re: WW2 Italy Star
Post by: MaxD on Thursday 19 October 17 10:32 BST (UK)
If his unit is easily identifiable then it should be possible to track where it was and when even without the detail of  the war diary.

MaxD
Title: Re: WW2 Italy Star
Post by: nanny jan on Thursday 19 October 17 10:36 BST (UK)
At first glance he seems to switch between Royal Fusiliers and Royal Artillery;  it is not the clearest set of handwriting I've seen. Will try to transcribe.
Thanks for the advice.
Title: Re: WW2 Italy Star
Post by: MaxD on Thursday 19 October 17 10:40 BST (UK)
OK - raining today, need something to do!

MaxD
Title: Re: WW2 Italy Star
Post by: medpat on Thursday 19 October 17 10:44 BST (UK)
My FIL was in Italy after being in Africa, ended up clearing Bari harbour of mines (he was in REs). Perhaps so many moved on to Italy difficult for admin at the time to keep up.
Title: Re: WW2 Italy Star
Post by: nanny jan on Thursday 19 October 17 11:39 BST (UK)
I did wonder about that possibility medpat and he got wounded somewhere.....still trying to work my way through all the sheets!
Title: Re: WW2 Italy Star
Post by: Skoyen89 on Thursday 19 October 17 21:01 BST (UK)
If he was wounded as you say and you have his number (which you should have from his records)then searching for him on the casualty lists in FindMyPast may show which unit he was in and with the date of wounding you could work out where he would be from the unit history/war diary.  It is useful because it lists the Royal Artillery unit which can sometimes be hard to find. 
Title: Re: WW2 Italy Star
Post by: nanny jan on Thursday 19 October 17 21:13 BST (UK)
Thanks, I'd forgotten about the casualty lists. The record seems to move him between RF and RA.

Not the best weekend to have a houseful of visitors!
Title: Re: WW2 Italy Star
Post by: IONICUS on Thursday 19 October 17 21:48 BST (UK)
He was probably staging at Gibraltar en route to the 1st or 8th Army.  On successful conclusion of the North African campaign, they were shipped to Italy to what was supposed to be the soft underbelly of Europe but which turned into a hard old slog up the length of that long country.  His campaign stars may be the 39/45 Star, North Africa Star and Italy Star, along with the Defence and War Medals.  There may be other medals in the group if he served before or after the war, or, if he was decorated for bravery.
Title: Re: WW2 Italy Star
Post by: nanny jan on Thursday 19 October 17 22:23 BST (UK)
We have his medals; Italy Star, 39/45 Star, Defence and War but no Africa Star.
Title: Re: WW2 Italy Star
Post by: ankerdine on Thursday 19 October 17 22:48 BST (UK)

My FIL was in Italy after being in Africa, ended up clearing Bari harbour of mines (he was in REs). Perhaps so many moved on to Italy difficult for admin at the time to keep up.

My FIL was also in the Royal Engineers and went to North Africa and Italy. We have his medals including the Italy Star too. He mentioned seeing an eruption of Vesuvius when he was in Naples. Would this have been possible?

I've been intending to send for his service record for some time now but not sure how to go about it.

He mentioned once in passing that he had been on a troopship which had been torpedoed. Does this ring a bell with anyone please?

Judy

Title: Re: WW2 Italy Star
Post by: nanny jan on Thursday 19 October 17 23:09 BST (UK)
The records are with the MOD; if your FIL or his wife are still living they can get them free, for anyone else it costs £30. I applied in September so not too long to wait and I had an email and a phone call to check that I was making a general and not next-of-kin application.
He was mum's first husband (came back home injured and died).

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=651361.0

Also with the record was a very useful leaflet explaining all the abbreviations.
Title: Re: WW2 Italy Star
Post by: ankerdine on Friday 20 October 17 07:52 BST (UK)
 Thank you for that information nanny jan. My FIL passed away in  2000 so perhaps it would be best if my husband applied for his father's records.

I hope you are enjoying deciphering those records that you have received.

My FIL went all the way up Italy we believe. He mentioned The River Po and ended up in the Black Forest area or Austria. Not sure of where exactly but he sent back several wooden carvings, some with quite grotesque faces! He said he hated the army and was away for 6 years, missing the childhood of his son which had a lasting effect on those concerned.

Thanks for the link.

I'll follow your post with interest.

Judy
Title: Re: WW2 Italy Star
Post by: medpat on Friday 20 October 17 08:18 BST (UK)
Found this ankerdine

https://www.earthmagazine.org/article/benchmarks-march-17-1944-most-recent-eruption-mount-vesuvius

Looks like he was right re the eruption. Note the American plane.
Title: Re: WW2 Italy Star
Post by: MaxD on Friday 20 October 17 09:20 BST (UK)
ankerdine

Sadly there were many troopships lost to enemy action https://uboat.net/allies/merchants/2528.html
but there may well be clues in his records when you get them.

MaxD
Title: Re: WW2 Italy Star
Post by: ankerdine on Friday 20 October 17 10:04 BST (UK)
Medpat, thanks for the link on the Vesuvius eruption. If you click on the highlighted text (in pink) beneath the photo there is actual film. It's absolutely amazing photography by the Americans. I wonder what FIL was doing on that day?

Max, thanks for your comments and link. I'm now geared up to try and obtain his service records. However I now understand his daughter obtained some service records whilst he was still alive but they were only the very basic ones.

Judy