RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: glenclare on Saturday 21 October 17 02:54 BST (UK)
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Hi
Thanks to some brilliant work from rootschatters, I have been tracing the travels and activities of Percy Robert Edwards.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=780786.0
Family stories have no mention of New Zealand., however the next of kin on the war documents match the correct Percy's family so we are as sure as we can be that from about 1915-1945 he was there or in England on short visits.
I am now trying to find out about his travelling companions
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-X92H-47?i=72&cc=1609792
They are going to Babcary, the family home , so correct family.
It would seem logical that Florence (born 1899-1903 in Scotland) is his wife despite the large age difference, and also that Pearl G (born c 1927 in NZ) their daughter. I cannot find a marriage which, if it took place, I believe must have been in NZ after 1919 when he left the military and was still single.
Help would also be appreciated trying to sort out if the Percy Edwards on the electoral rolls with a wife Mary is a different Percy. He can be found with her in 1938, and there is a death notice for 1945 that mentions wife Mary. However in 1928 a Percy and Mary Edwards are together but he is described as a landscape artist?? So is he the same Percy with two "wives" at the same time, or is it a coincidence of two Percys dying in 1945?
And of course who are Florence and Pearl and what happened to them?
Any help much appreciated.
Added: There is a second electoral roll entry for 1938. He is listed as Percy not Percy Robert. 374 Muritai Road, Eastbourne, and he is a factory manager. This occupation is mentioned in court .
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From reading through the older threads, it appears he was a 'horse' man?
Looks like he had quite a bit of bother in nz, with the law:
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19230705.2.108
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19230704.2.94
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19230705.2.50
VALUELESS CHEQUE ISSUED, New Zealand Herald, Volume LX, Issue 18443, 5 July 1923
Horse Trainer's Lapse
Well known horse trainer, Percy Robert Edwards
Issued a valueless cheque of £6
Previously of good character, and employers anxious to retain his services.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19290824.2.28
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19290823.2.134
MAGISTRATE'S COURT, Evening Post, Volume CVIII, Issue 48, 24 August 1929
Percy Robert Edwards age 43, obtaining credit by false pretences
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19311031.2.19
MAGISTRATE'S COURT, Evening Post, Volume CXII, Issue 106, 31 October 1931
Percy Robert Edwards, Horse Trainer age 43. Fraud £5
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/HC19311114.2.20
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19311107.2.22
CREDIT BY FRAUD, Evening Post, Volume CXII, Issue 112, 7 November 1931
Percy Robert EDWARDS age 50 in 1931 (b abt 1881) up on charges of fraud.
A well-dressed Englishman, with a wife.
Had previously been employed as a manager in a Nelson cider factory.
He had previously been convicted in 1923 and 1929.
Was sentenced to 6 months in prison.
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi
For starters, there is this New Zealand marriage >
Percy Robert EDWARDS - Mary Helen Craig CRADOCK -- Year : 1926
~ Lu
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Hi Glenclare
It seems that the Percy Robert EDWARDS for whom you found a 1945 death notice in a New Zealand newspaper, and whose wife was named as "Mary", is the same person who served in the NZ Army.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19450621.2.4
Death Notice for Percy Robert Clapp EDWARDS - husband of Mary - died at Christchurch, 20 June 1945.
https://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=21000340&digital=yes
Image # 3 - gives the date of death (near end of page) for this Percy Robert EDWARDS, as 20 June 1945 at ChCh (Christchuch).
* Does the additional forename of "CLAPP" (in the death notice), have any significance to the family of your man Percy EDWARDS ??
~ Lu
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I am now trying to find out about his travelling companions
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-X92H-47?i=72&cc=1609792
They are going to Babcary, the family home , so correct family.
It would seem logical that Florence (born 1899-1903 in Scotland) is his wife despite the large age difference, and also that Pearl G (born c 1927 in NZ) their daughter. I cannot find a marriage which, if it took place, I believe must have been in NZ after 1919 when he left the military and was still single.
Hi ... the link you've given ^ above, is for a voyage (per s.s. "Marama") from Wellington, NZ to Sydney. ???
* Was there a passenger list out of Sydney / or into UK, which gave you the additional details for "Wife - Florence & daughter, Pearl" ??
~ Lu
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... can see them entering UK in November 1935 - per "Ormonde" - embarked at Sydney.
However, they're only listed as "Mr. P. R. / Mrs F.C. and daughter, Miss P. G. (aged 8)". ?
[Can see a possible return to NZ in 1936 - wife is named as Mary ... daughter (8 years) also has a different forename to the one you gave ?? ]
Will do some more exploring ... really do need to sort this out. ;D
~ Lu
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=780786.9
Reply#16 = Glenclare writes:
I have found his immigration record for his second attempt at New Zealand.
June 1936 He is married to Florence and she comes from ...... Scotland!
Daughter is Pearl and she was born in New Zealand"
Hi Glenclare, what is the source for that 1936 Immigration record?
Hi Lu, what is the link to say that Percy Robert Clapp EDWARDS who died 1945 is the same man (Glenclare's) in the NZ Army? (sorry if missed the link - I'm trying to get it all straight in my head :)
Cheers
AMBLY
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So, here they are > arrivals per the "Ruahine" in 1936, passing through NZ Immigration. Arrived 10 June 1936.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-XSSX-KG?i=11&cc=1609792
EDWARDS - Percy - 54 - Indpt. b. ENG
EDWARDS - Florence - 35 - H.D. - b. SCO
EDWARDS - Pearl - 8 - b. NZ
... and from the actual passenger list of the "Ruahine" - departed UK (London) 30 April 1936 for NZ.
All travelling on Ticket # 505 >
EDWARDS - Percy - 41 - Indpendent
EDWARDS - Mary - 38
EDWARDS - Margaret - 8 years
... contracted to land at Wellington (Prev. Address : c/-Trans Pacif. Pass. Agency
???
~ Lu
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My curiosity lies in the marriage:
Percy Robert EDWARDS to Mary Helen Craig CRADOCK
And the departure from NZ of F C C EDWARDS (listed on the UK leg as Mrs F C)
Lots of C's ;D
Just saw your 1936 immigration post Lu, hah, very curious indeed!
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi Glenclare, what is the source for that 1936 Immigration record?
Hi Lu, what is the link to say that Percy Robert Clapp EDWARDS who died 1945 is the same man (Glenclare's) in the NZ Army? (sorry if missed the link - I'm trying to get it all straight in my head :)
Hi AMBLY
... 1936 Immigration record ... probably now covered by my later post about the "Ruahine" to Wellington arriving June 1936. ?
... see my post # 3 - gives same date and place of death for the soldier Percy Robert EDWARDS and Percy Robert Clapp EDWARDS as per death notice. ;D
~ Lu
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My curiosity lies in the marriage:
Percy Robert EDWARDS to Mary Helen Craig CRADOCK
And the departure from NZ of F C C EDWARDS (listed on the UK leg as Mrs F C)
Lots of C's ;D
Just saw your 1936 immigration post Lu, hah, very curious indeed!
Cheers
AMBLY
... yes had just been about to mention "the "C" initials. ;D
Have found the daughter > will add details shortly > and she appears to have resided in Christchurch after marrying.
~ Lu
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Mrs EDWARDS (wife of Percy Robert) :
This is possibly her death ???
1964 - EDWARDS - Florence Craig - aged 64 Years
~ Lu
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... and just confirming that the death of aforementioned "Florence Craig EDWARDS - 1964" was registered at Christchurch.
Can't immediately see a cemetery record for her (or for a Percy Robert) ?? {Maybe cremations ? }
~ Lu
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Funeral notice for Percy Robert Clapp EDWARDS - June 1945 :
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19450621.2.69.8
So, yes. cremation.
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... oops ... APOLOGIES ... ;D
Admit to not having read right the way through the link to your Australian board thread, glenclare .. and I see now that you (and others) had already made some discoveries re: passenger lists / a New Zealand marriage / etc. etc. ... which I had (wildly) gone ahead and repeated on the NZ thread. ::)
Never mind, it does throw up the oddity of the NZ Immigration Dept. list of persons who arrived in Wellington, NZ from UK per the ship "Ruahine" in June 1936 ... and what was written on the actual passenger list for that same voyage in respect of a family named EDWARDS, and specifically, the forenames and ages of the two females accompanying Percy ???
Further ... there is the question of Mary versus Florence EDWARDS / and a death at Christchurch in 1964 of a "Florence Craig EDWARDS" who may well be the woman also known as Mary Craig (CRADOCK) EDWARDS. ???
~ Lu
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This is the death of the probable daughter of Percy Robert EDWARDS and Mary Helen Craig EDWARDS.
2001 - SMITH - Pearl Geraldine - date of birth = 15 July 1927
[I am not yet able to find where this death occurred. ]
[Info. sources : Pearl Geraldine EDWARDS marriage to ------- SMITH - Year: ------
Sorry, but the NZ BDM rules preclude posting info from marriage indexes after "today's date" 1937" ... I will however send this to you via PM.
A Pearl Geraldine SMITH, together at times with her husband, resided in Christchurch up until 1981 (limit of online NZ electoral rolls) at a location in Christchurch which was in close proximity to the address of Mary Helen Craig EDWARDS. ]
~ Lu
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What incredible information to wake up to.
Thank you so much Lu and Ambly. :)
I have been trying to make sense of the very limited information I had for years and always became more confused!
The Clapp in the name suddenly appeared! He was not given it at birth, unlike a couple of his siblings and didn’t have it on most records as you found. Clapp was his grandmothers maiden name. His father had it as a Christian name. It seems to have been a family tradition certainly since about 1820, to use grandmothers surnames as Christian names even continuing as recently as the generation after Percy. Future family historians will be even more confused as recent generations on different branches, have taken these Christian names and used them as double barrelled surnames ???
That family search record for the Ruahine departure is ? ? When compared with the other record.
So Florence is Mary Helen and Pearl is Margaret and then not?
Thank you. I am going to need a while, and a large coffee, to read and fully understand all the information
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So Florence is Mary Helen and Pearl is Margaret and then not?
The name ' Margaret' means 'Pearl' - see here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret
This was explained to me years ago by a Margaret whose father always called her Pearly. Funny how these little things stick in your mind :)
Carol
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Thanks for that info Carol ... have learned something new today.
Derived from the noun margaron, meaning "pearl".
And I won't forget it, either. ;)
~ Lu
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Mmm ... maybe the following will solve the "mystery" surrounding Mary Helen Craig CRADOCK and Florence Craig EDWARDS ???
Free BMD (UK)
BIRTHS - 3 Q - 1899
CRADOCK - Florence Craig
Registered : Lambeth
NZ Death
1964 - EDWARDS - Florence Craig - 64 years
Date of Death = 3 January 1964 at Christchurch.
1901 - England Census
@ 5 Harefield ? Villas - Lewisham - London
CRADOCK - David - 30 - Butcher - b. Scot. - Dumfries
CRADOCK - Mary I. - wife - 23 - b. Lancs - Rossal
CRADOCK - Florence - dau - 1 year - b. Surrey - Loughboro
CRADOCK - (unnamed) - son - aged 1 month - b. Kent- Sydenham
UK Marriage
3 Q - 1897
CRADOCK - David Crighton
CRAIG - Mary Isabella
Reg: Lambeth
UK - Deaths
1909 - Probate
CRADOCK - David Crighton - of 126 Blackwell Road, Carlisle - Commission Butcher's Agent - d. 12 July 1909, Carlisle, Cumbria : Probate, Carlisle, to Mary Isabella CRADOCK - widow.
Effects : 313-8s-7d Probate date : 23 July 1909
Possibly his wife ?? [Couldn't find her in 1911 nor a re-marriage ?]
Death -1910
CRADOCK - Mary I. - aged 32 years [bc 1878]
Registered : Wigton, Cumberland
-----
~ Lu see next >>
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Per "Athenic" from Southampton - departed 12 March 1925 - to Auckland, New Zealand :
CRADOCK - Florence - aged 25 years - domestic - UK address: Park House, Addlestone*
[* Addlestone -- probably Surrey ? ]
New Zealand Electoral
1925 - Canterbury - Avon Electorate
CRADOCK - Florence - spinster - 48 Linwood Ave, Christchurch.
~ Lu
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NZ Marriage (as given earlier)
Mary Helen Craig CRADOCK - Percy Robert EDWARDS - Year: 1926 (actual date - 11 November 1926)
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Per "Athenic" from Southampton - departed 12 March 1925 - to Auckland, New Zealand :
CRADOCK - Florence - aged 25 years - domestic - UK address: Park House, Addlestone*
[* Addlestone -- probably Surrey ? ]
New Zealand Electoral
1925 - Canterbury - Avon Electorate
CRADOCK - Florence - spinster - 48 Linwood Ave, Christchurch.
~ Lu
* * C O R R E C T I O N * *
Just eliminating the above Florence CRADOCK who lived at above address until her death in 1946.
[ She was the daughter of Amelia and Fernandino George CRADOCK - b. 1878 NZ ]
~ Lu
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If this is the right family, and I have no reason to think it isn’t, it is terribly sad. After the parents deaths the children are in a Scottish orphanage. Of the five children two die as babies, and the two boys are sent to Canada many years apart and to different places. I suspect they had no contact. And Mary goes to NZ and has the misfortune to get mixed up with Percy.
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If this is the right family, and I have no reason to think it isn’t, it is terribly sad. After the parents deaths the children are in a Scottish orphanage. Of the five children two die as babies, and the two boys are sent to Canada many years apart and to different places. I suspect they had no contact. And Mary goes to NZ and has the misfortune to get mixed up with Percy.
Mmm ... sorry, I'm lost about just which family (of 5 children) you are talking about ??
~ Lu