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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: LizzieL on Friday 27 October 17 15:41 BST (UK)
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Betsy Derham married James Hough on 29 Dec 1833 in Christchurch, Hants. witnesses Mary Ann Derham and John Lemmon. They have three known children, Mary Ann b 13 Apr 1884 bapt 14 May 1834, Elizabeth bapt 6 Aug 1836 and Margaret birth reg Q3 1839 Christchurch mmn Derham.
Betsy appears on 1841 census as Elizabeth Hough age 25 with Elizabeth and Margaret.
Piece: 397 Book: 3 Folio: 17 Page: 26
I think oldest daughter Mary is the Mary with Jane Derham age 65 (widow)
Piece: 397 Book: 3 Folio: 21 Page Number: 34
This makes me think Jane is Betsy's mother, but Betsy was nbic, in fact it looks like an I in the last column (for Ireland).
I can't find any of the Houghs on later censuses, nor can I find James Hough in 1841, but no sign of a death record for him. I can't find a likely Mary Ann (witness) either. She could be sister and might have married by 1841.
Any suggestions please.
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Pretty certain that 1841 census is not intending to say Elizabeth HOUGH 25, was born in Ireland - and that the mark in the last column (Scotland, Ireland or Foreign birth) is not an I. If it were it would have instead been written much like the I for the person so marked on the facing page.
I would go with the N, written in the English Birth Column, Not Born in County
HO107 Piece 397 - Book 3 - Folio 17- Pg2, Christchurch Hampshire
For our lookers ref: Jane Derham 65, Y - born in Hampshire, is in Christchurch, here:
HO107 Piece: 397; Book: 3; Folio: 21; Page: 34
She appears to have died 1850, age 72. GRO Death registered, Christchurch.
Cheers
AMBLY
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Thank you, I was uncertain about the I in the last column, it did look a bit more like a slip of the pen.
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A Mary Ann DERHAM married Christchurch, Mar Qtr 1842:
To George HEAD.
Birth GRO: George HEAD, D Qtr 1843, Christchurch, mms DERHAM
Birth GRO: Tom HEAD, J Qtr 1848, Christchurch, mms DERHAM
Birth GRO: John HEAD, D Qtr 1850, Christchurch, mms DERHAM
1851 CENSUS: Stanpit, Christchurch, Hampshire
HO107; Piece: 1667; Folio: 112; Page: 10;
Head: George HEAD 36, Wheelwright, b Cheriton, Somerset
Wife: Mary A HEAD 40, b Woolwich Kent
Sons: George 7, Tom 3, John 4 mths - all born Christchurc
Can't d find in 1861 or 1881.
In 1871, Mary Ann presents as age 57 (b abt 1814), Woolwich
On an A*Y tree, for Mary Ann & family, it states she died 1882, and that there is no father listed on her marriage cert.
Cheers
AMBLY
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Thanks, a good lead on Mary Ann. I think I now have her in 1841 as a servant nbic
Piece 397 Book 4 Folio 3 Page 7
If she was born Woolwich could be her father was in the army.
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Searching baptisms in Woolwich, there's a Mary Ann DURHAM bapt 12 April 1811 and Elizabeth DURHAM bapt 9 Sep 1813, parents of both are Michael and Jane.
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Also baptism at Winchester, Michael s/o Michael and Jane Durham bapt 6 Oct 1808
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;D That looks very promising!
I wish I could find her (Mary Ann ) in 1861 and 1881,,,,,,,,
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Hi,
The image for Elizabeth's baptism shows,
Elizabeth DURHAM
Born: 09 Sep 1813
Baptised: 01 Oct 1813
St Mary Magdalene, Woolwich
Daur of Michael and Jane
Abode: Woolwich
Profession: Gunner in the Artillery
There may have also been another daughter Sarah,
Sarah Ann DURHAM
Born: 06 Dec 1809
Baptised: 29 Dec 1809
St Mary Magdalene, Woolwich
Parents: Michael and Jane
This could be her burial but as it doesn't show an age it's hard to be sure,
Sarah Ann DURHAM
Burial date: 13 Mar 1810
St Mary Magdalene, Woolwich
I have found Mary Ann (DURHAM) HEAD transcribed at Ancestry as HECK, they also have Lucy Mother down as Leroy father ::)
1861 RG9/666 f.102 p.12 Christchurch, Hampshire
Stanpit, Ship in Distress
HEAD
George Head 46 Wheelwright and Publican Somerset
Maryann Wife 48 Woolwich
George Son 17 Hampshire Christchurch
Tom Son 13 Scholar " "
John Son 10 Scholar " "
Lucy Mother W 86 N.K.
In 1881 she is still at the "Ship in Distress" but she is dittoed as being born in Christchurch,
1881 RG11/1193 f.36 p.11 Stanpit, Christchurch, Hampshire
Ship in Distress
HEAD
John Head 29 Innkeeper and Wheelwright
Sarah Wife 30
Sarah L. Daur 6 Scholar
Mary J Daur 4 "
Frederic Son 3 "
Mary A Mother W 68
George CLARK Lodger 17 Fisherman
All born Hants Christchurch,
The "Ship in Distress" is still there just Google :)
Regards,
Daisy
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Thank you very much, confirms my suspicion that Michael was in the army.
But I am wondering how he fits into my family - if he does.
John Derham, his wife Mary came to Christchurch from Morden Dorset with their older children then had a few more in Christchurch. All the Christchurch Derhams, that I have so far found (except Owen Derham's family but they came much later) can be traced back to John and Mary and their children.
All the records for Michael and his family in Christchurch have the name spelt Derham. (Jane on census in 1841, Jane's death record, Betsy's and Mary Ann's marriage records and mother's maiden name on GRO index for Betsy's last child and all three of Mary Ann's) But any record outside Christchurch has the name spelt Durham.
If only a marriage for Michael and Jane would turn up.
According to 1841 census and death reg we know Jane was born in Hampshire in approx 1776.
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Just to throw my tuppence in
Michael has been a common name in England post war.
In my experience Michaels found in early records tend to be of irish origin.
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I was wondering about Ireland as all the records I have found for Michael Derhams seem to be Irish or Lancashire where a lot of Irish migrated to. I have not found any connection between the Irish Derhams and mine in West Hants / East Dorset or to the Derhams around North Curry, Somerset.
I suppose a Derham from Ireland could have joined the army and be posted to Winchester, married a Hampshire girl, then been posted to Woolwich, died somewhere unknown and his widow with two daughters happened to go to Christchurch where there was, coincidentally, another family group with the same, not particularly common, surname
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There was an Artillery Barracks at Christchurch (built 1792) so Michael could have been stationed there after being in Woolwich. His unit could have been sent America or to Europe, we were fighting all over the place in the early 1800s.
I can see that there are DURHAMs living Morden and other places in Dorset, also some in Hampshire and on the Isle of Wight, but I can't find Michael.
Here are some possible Army records at the NA but I don't know how much info they would have.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13458566
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13456653
Jane would have been about 32 when she had Michael Jun. in 1808 so maybe there are other children somewhere else or she could have been a widow when she married Michael Sen.
I think the different spelling of DERHAM and DURHAM is not a sign that they are different families, because many people couldn't read or write the surname would be written down however the person writing the record thought it was spelt. As time went on and literacy improved people would begin to keep the same spelling that the first learnt.
I have a family that spell their surname in at least three different ways :)
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some other potential baptisms, not that far away - some may be too early though? On all these four Michael is a mariner
St Paul, Deptford, Lewisham, Kent
Bartholomew Durham Baptism 30 Jul 1786
Jane Maria Durham Baptism 15 Mar 1789
St Nicholas, Deptford, Greenwich, kent
Wm John Derham Baptism 17 Nov 1793
Margaret Eliz Derham Baptism 5 Feb 1796
Also if someone can access it may be worth looking at this in the Chelsea Pensioner records, in case the age is incorrect (service dates don;t fit it!)
Michael Durham age 74, b Sheffield, service in Royal Horse Artillery 1800-1816
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Thank you all for your suggestions.
Looking at Elizabeth (Betsy's ) baptism in Woolwich where it gives father's occupation, it just says gunner in the Artillery, whereas some occupations are recorded as being in the Horse Artillery, so I'm wondering if Michael was in what became Field or Garrison Artillery.
The Michael Durham in the HA born Sheffield is age 41 on the record. It gives 28 Mar 1826 as date of admission. But there is a note to say "pensioned at 5d per day 4 Apr 1816, increased to 1/0 Boards Order 4 Aug 1826 from 26 March".
Not sure if it means he was 41 when he starting getting the lower pension in 1816 or when it was increased in 1826. Dob could be 1775 or 1785.