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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: Krazykat87 on Monday 30 October 17 21:55 GMT (UK)
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Hi I am really stuggling to figure out which birth/baptism is correct for my 4x great grandparents James Wibberley and Sarah Dearnally.
I have found several records than could be them but because their marriage doesn’t show the fathers names I can’t decide which is the correct ones so I’m at a bit of an impass.
They married on the 27th March 1826 in the parish of kirkburton.
And in 1831 we’re living in hinchcliff mill when they had Samuel, my 3x ggrandad
I know James was born in Derbyshire but on census I see ‘shirley’ and ‘bradley’ which in turn means I have forums a few births/baptism that could be his.
Sarah has ‘kirkburton’ and ‘wooldale’.
James died in 1872 and Sarah in 1876 ( I think)
I would love to know how all you guys manage to confirm your findings when you get in this rut
Thanks in advance
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List censuses in full,
List kids baptisms in full.
List candidate baptisms for james and sarah, and look for family forenames being passed down.
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Ok I shall do that tomorrow when I pull out my file again. My battery is getting real low so best to watch for morning. They had a good few kids which I think I have most of them now anyway. I have the 41,51,61,71 census
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To add to Pauline's list...
Do you have witnesses names to the marriage which may help with who the children were named after (names in the family)?
Take note of their ages on census' as often people give a date such as 'b 1820' when the age actually differs on census records from 1818 - 1824 or such like.
Annie
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Ok this will slow as it’s a lot of typing while I’m getting ready for work
1841 census
All down as Yorkshire
James Wibberley 40
Sarah Wibberley 35
William Wibberley 15
George Wibberley 13
Lot Wibberley 12
Sam Wibberley 10
Ann Wibberley 7
Hannah Wibberley 5
Jane Wibberley 3
James Wibberley 8mo
1851 census
James Wibberley 49 derby, Bradley
Sarah Wibberley 45 York’s, kirkburton
George Wibberley 22 York’s, part of ???
Lot Wibberley 21 As above
Sam Wibberley 20. As above
Hannah Wibberley 14 as above
Jane Wibberley 12 as above
James Wibberley 10 as above
Alfred Wibberley 7 as above
Mary Wibberley 4 as above
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1861 census
James Wibberley 59 Derbyshire, Bradley
Sarah Wibberley 55 yorks, wooldale
Lott Wibberley 31 yorks, austonley
Hannah Wibberley 24 as above
Alfred Wibberley 17 as above
Mary Wibberley 14 as above
1871 census
James Wibberley 69 Derbyshire, Shirley
Sarah Wibberley 65 yorks, kirkburton
Lot Wibberley 42 yorks, austonley
Mary Wibberley 24 as above
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Marriage
Parish of kirkburton
James Wibberley of this parish and Sarah Dearnally of this parish were married in this church by banns with consent of ???? This 27 day of March 1826 by me ????
In the presence of John moorhouse and ??? Booth
It’s extremely faded but as a side note the marriage above is also done in the presence of those two witnesses and the one below has 1 of the witnesses in common
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Plenty of family names to choose from for potential parents.
Whichever name is not the one appearing on another marriage, could be (not necessarily) a relative possibly married to a sister so it's an avenue to look for a marriage with that name with the surname Wibberley or Dearnally?
Annie
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Possible results.... (hopefully won’t miss any as some of the links are on the computer not my phone)
James wibberly baptism 30 dec 1801 Shirley Derbyshire, England
Son of George and Anne wibberly
Ahhh I can’t find the other two now that came up in the last searches.
Will have to check the computer tonight after work
Ok Sarah Dearnally
B 21may 1805
Baptism 6 jul 1805
Kirkburton, All Hallows’
Parents Jas and Charlotte Dearnally
Sarah Dearnally
B 1 Oct 1804
Bap 13 Oct 1804
Kirkburton, All Hallows’
Parents Geo and Lydia Dearnally
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Plenty of family names to choose from for potential parents.
Whichever name is not the one appearing on another marriage, could be (not necessarily) a relative possibly married to a sister so it's an avenue to look for a marriage with that name with the surname Wibberley or Dearnally?
Annie
Both witnesses are on the marriage above and booth is also on the one below there’s so I think they may have just had something to do with the church not the people getting married.
Why couldn’t it just have been a family member listed lol
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"Why couldn’t it just have been a family member listed lol"... So frustrating ;D
This one is difficult for Sarah as there's no Charlotte or Lydia in the names of the children.
Not everyone was baptised & not all records were kept properly or haven't survived?
Annie
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Maybe worth tracing the children, their marriages and offspring, some may be named after previous generations. This might be one of those 'probable' parents scenarios where you have to take an educated guess based on the naming patterns. It may be worth checking birth announcements in newspapers for any clues, or any wills that may have been left by potential parents. Good luck
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I have one of the booklets sold by the Huddersfield District FHS for Kirkburton baptisms 1795-1812.
Unfortunately, there are actually 4 baptisms for a Sarah Dearnley, all within your time frame:-
born 2.11.1803 baptised 27.11.1803 d/o George & Sarah of Underbank.
born 1.10.1804 baptised 13.10.1804 d/o George & Lydia of Tottins. (Holmfirth chapel)
born 20.5.1805 baptised 5.7.1805 d/o James & Charlotte of Wooldale. (Holmfirth Chapel)
born 18.6.1806 baptised 24.7.1806 d/o John & Mary of Stoney Bank. (Holmfirth Chapel)
The Wooldale one looks favourite but I would be looking to find out where Underbank, Tottins, and Stoney Bank are/were in order to establish that they were a few miles from Wooldale, and also possibly 'kill off' one or more of the Sarahs in infancy. Unfortunately, I don't have a burial booklet.
Hope that's some help and hasn't muddied the waters even more. :-\
Jill
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Just wondering...
Was Lot a male or female and if female what was her actual name, could it be short for Charlotte?
Annie
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Lot was a male
And yes I had seen more than the 2 options for Sarah but when I went to look to type them up for you I could find the others lol
I no that a lot of births weren’t recorded and only there baptisms were
I am slowly chasing up the children. Lot and Mary seem to have not had children or were married as they are together on all the census details.
Sam married and had a good few children which I have a lot of records for as he is my 3x grey grandad
Hannah married a charlesworth
Jane married
Not managed to trace Alfred,William or Ann yet
George didn’t marry as he lived with lot and Mary most of the time
Just haven’t traced their children as yet
Wills may be the only options but the ones I’ve had so far haven’t given me anything else either. But I guess if I search for wills by the potential parents I can hope that something appears I guess
I do plan to search thru our local papers for the births and deaths but that will be a slow process with me having to go to hudds library to do so
Jill those are the ones for the holmfirth area as well only, the ones I found are just at All Hallows’ church in kirkburton where they married lol
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in the presence of those two witnesses and the one below has 1 of the witnesses in common
I've seen parish records where nearly every marriage had the same witness(es). I always assume when only 1 was required (because the couple getting married had provided one witness) it was the parish clerk and when 2 witnesses were required it was the parish clerk and his wife!
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Jill those are the ones for the holmfirth area as well only, the ones I found are just at All Hallows’ church in kirkburton where they married lol
Holmfirth was part of the Kirkburton parish, with events taking place at the Holmfirth Chapel within that parish. Not sure when it became a parish in its own right.
Added: All 3 places:- Underbank, Stoneybank and Totties are within 2 miles of Wooldale. Going by what Sarah put as her birthplace on some of the censuses, I think the Wooldale birth/baptism must be favourite.
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I have a Derneley in my tree, so this thread caught my interest. Mine are from Lambley, Notts.
I have to confess I've only skim-read the preceding posts, but wondered whether you had already found this extensive website:
http://familytree.dearnley.com/reports/g1/p1254.htm#i12538 (http://familytree.dearnley.com/reports/g1/p1254.htm#i12538)
Looks like it doesn't directly provide the info you want, but hopefully interesting anyway.
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Do you think there would be any more info on a proper marriage cert?
The one I got is from ancestry
Jill the only reason I searched with kirkburton is that it is mentioned more than wooldale is which was only the once.
Totties is really close to wooldale as I’ve worked up there in the past
Geeee what have I got myself in to really by doing all this lol
I’m a little ocd and hate ‘maybes or probablies’ lol
Both James and Sarah were buried at st David’s in hinchcliff mill
Lizzie, I thought maybe that the same witnesses are listed some times might be because the families didn’t approve
Rat- yes I actually came across this this morning and printed a load of the info off, it does list a Sarah who married a James Wibberley and they have her birth listed as 1805 in kirkburton. I emailed them to see if they have any more information on her that may be useful
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Just wondering...
Was Lot a male or female and if female what was her actual name, could it be short for Charlotte?
Annie
For what its worth, I think this is a very good point. Charlotte may well have been called Lottie all her life - James and Sarah's son Lot may well have been named after her.
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Yes possibly Jill would be nice for it to be that and make things a little easier ;)
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The one I got is from ancestry
I hope you mean you found it on someone's family tree, otherwise you probably paid too much for it. The place to order certificates is www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates. They cost £9.25 each inc. postage. If you are interested in birth and death certs, you can get pdf ones from the GRO site for £6 each.
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I thought the marriage was from 1826, in which case there will be no civil marriage certificate, the information on the parish marriage register is the best you will get, unless there is an announcement in a newspaper.
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The one I got is from ancestry
I hope you mean you found it on someone's family tree, otherwise you probably paid too much for it. The place to order certificates is www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates. They cost £9.25 each inc. postage. If you are interested in birth and death certs, you can get pdf ones from the GRO site for £6 each.
My friend lets me access her ancestry so it was downloaded from there for free.
yes cristeen the marriage was from 1826..... it was the banns and then the sheet that starts with 'Marriages solemnized in the parish.....'
Thats all you do find on ancestry unless you order which i cant afford
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There is a Charles BOOTH marrying an Elizabeth Dearnally 11th July 1824 at Kirkburton.
Perhaps a connection (marriage witness surname)
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Yeah possibly
I’m going to print out each of the ‘found’ birth/baptisms then try work from that
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I’ve been having a think also while getting these 4 notes down for Sarah....
The 1803 one actually works when it comes to names as the parents are sarah and George. And obviously she is called Sarah and one of her children was called George....
Then her son sam had children called George and 2 Sarahs as well.
But then again the 1806 one would work too as the mothers name is Mary and she called one of the daughters Mary....
And again the 1804 As the father is down as George and she had a child called george and her son Sam calls one of his children george
There is only the 1805 which we were thinking maybe would be the correct one that doesn’t seem to have a proper link except presuming Sarah’s son Lott was named after possible parent Charlotte.... there is no other link as even grandchildren I have so far aren’t called Charlotte or jas...
Arrggghhhh banging my head against a wall lol
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Went to hudds family history root cellar yesterday.... managed to rule out one of the Sarah Dearnally births as we found a death for the Sarah born in 1803 to George and Sarah or underbank
So 3 more to try whittle down. Feel better that there is at least one gone though :-)
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Hello
Have you investigated a possible link to the next door neighbour on 1841 census George Dearnley and family.possible link mentioned on the Dearnley website you found earlier.
Lee
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Hello
Have you investigated a possible link to the next door neighbour on 1841 census George Dearnley and family.possible link mentioned on the Dearnley website you found earlier.
Lee
Hi, as yet no i haven't as to be honest with there being 4 sarah dearnallys in the small area i thought he could be any of their siblings lol so i couldn't see a logical reason that it would get me any further... it may just be me thinking that but im open to ideas anyway x