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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: kob3203 on Friday 03 November 17 13:08 GMT (UK)

Title: Fully defining a 'place' in Ireland
Post by: kob3203 on Friday 03 November 17 13:08 GMT (UK)
I've recently realized that my original method of identifying a 'place' in Ireland as follows is truly insufficient:
Place: Ballynattin
Location: Midway between Cahir and Fethard towns

I'm beginning to think that I need to include a reference like this for every 'place':
County: Tipperary (south riding)
Barony: Middlethird
Civil Parish: Mora
Townland: Ballinattin Upper, Ballinattin Lower
Poor Law Union: Cashel
Registrar's District: Tullamain
Electoral Division: Graigue
RC Parish: Clerihan? Powerstown? New Inn? Cashel ?

As you can probably tell from the question marks it's the last item, the RC Parish, that I'm having trouble nailing a 'place' down to.

The following four websites used together allow me to work out with a high degree of confidence all except the RC Parish:
https://www.johngrenham.com/places/ (https://www.johngrenham.com/places/) - (County,CP, PLU, RD)
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch (http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch) - (County, Barony, CP, Townland + map)
https://www.townlands.ie/ (https://www.townlands.ie/) - (County,Barony, CP,ED + map)
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,613673,631163,9,7 (http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,613673,631163,9,7) - (Map with townlands, CPs, and baronies+modern map overlay)

To find the RC Parish I use this, which gives the closest RC chapels and the RC parishes in which they lie:
http://www.swilson.info/rcparishlink.php (http://www.swilson.info/rcparishlink.php) - (Map with RC chapels marked)

Is there any way I can be more sure about the RC Parish, or is a shortlist the best I'm going to do ?








Title: Re: Fully defining a 'place' in Ireland
Post by: hallmark on Friday 03 November 17 13:15 GMT (UK)
https://books.google.ie/books?id=uPejqKxcEjIC&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=Ballinattin+Lower&source=bl&ots=p6bUHeC8Xx&sig=NmoaY61OOZF5vRn99bzMWEJSHAM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi389TbvaLXAhVHYJoKHc4oBoAQ6AEIUDAI#v=onepage&q=Ballinattin%20Lower&f=false
Title: Re: Fully defining a 'place' in Ireland
Post by: wee Hugh on Friday 03 November 17 15:18 GMT (UK)
John Grenham's book 'Tracing your Irish ancestors' (Gill & Macmillan, Dublin, 1999) has a map of the Catholic parishes for each county.  But the maps are small and I think only approximate, so may leave you in just as much doubt.

If you like to send me a PM with your eMail address I could scan the one for Tipperary South, if you think it might help.
You would have to scale it up and compare it with a map of townlands or villages, to see whether you can identify which side of a boundary your place falls.
Title: Re: Fully defining a 'place' in Ireland
Post by: Sinann on Friday 03 November 17 16:07 GMT (UK)
When I'm looking for the RC Parish I click on the link to church records on John Graham's site
Mora Civil Parish for example
https://www.johngrenham.com/c_parish/c_parish_main.php?civilparishid=2259&county=Tipperary&civilparish=Mora&CountyMap=
Click on 6 Church Records.
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/church.php?civilparishid=2259&civilparish=Mora&search_type=full
Than use the link to the NLI site and check the surrounding parishes in reverse just in case there is any cross over.
Title: Re: Fully defining a 'place' in Ireland
Post by: hallmark on Friday 03 November 17 18:09 GMT (UK)
Mora RC parish is in Mora Civil Parish
Title: Re: Fully defining a 'place' in Ireland
Post by: hallmark on Friday 03 November 17 18:11 GMT (UK)
Ballinattin Upper, Ballinattin Lower of  Mora Civil Parish is in  Mora RC parish   

https://www.johngrenham.com/c_parish/c_parish_main.php?civilparishid=2259&civilparish=Mora&county=Tipperary
Title: Re: Fully defining a 'place' in Ireland
Post by: kob3203 on Saturday 04 November 17 15:16 GMT (UK)
Mora RC parish ? The NLI and swilson sites give no indication of any Mora RC parish in that area (see attached screenshot from the NLI RC parish map)

(the two areas without names are isolated parts of Powerstown and Clonmel St Marys according to the NLI site)
Title: Re: Fully defining a 'place' in Ireland
Post by: kob3203 on Saturday 04 November 17 15:34 GMT (UK)
John Grenham's book 'Tracing your Irish ancestors' (Gill & Macmillan, Dublin, 1999) has a map of the Catholic parishes for each county.  But the maps are small and I think only approximate, so may leave you in just as much doubt.

If you like to send me a PM with your eMail address I could scan the one for Tipperary South, if you think it might help.
You would have to scale it up and compare it with a map of townlands or villages, to see whether you can identify which side of a boundary your place falls.

Thanks for the offer. John Grenham's maps were the basis for the NLI RC parish map ( https://registers.nli.ie/#home_ma (https://registers.nli.ie/#home_ma)p ), so I think I've already got that information.
Title: Re: Fully defining a 'place' in Ireland
Post by: kob3203 on Saturday 04 November 17 15:35 GMT (UK)
When I'm looking for the RC Parish I click on the link to church records on John Graham's site
Mora Civil Parish for example
https://www.johngrenham.com/c_parish/c_parish_main.php?civilparishid=2259&county=Tipperary&civilparish=Mora&CountyMap=
Click on 6 Church Records.
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/church.php?civilparishid=2259&civilparish=Mora&search_type=full
Than use the link to the NLI site and check the surrounding parishes in reverse just in case there is any cross over.

I hadn't spotted that - thank you.