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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: Eilleen on Saturday 04 November 17 11:25 GMT (UK)
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Hello , this is what I know. :)
In 1939 Edith Cree is Mrs Catley, and living at 30 Mill Gate , Newark .
she states her birth date as 16th Dec 1910.
she married Walter Catley, newark reg 1930. Newark 7b 1186
1911 census , has a Edith Emily Cree , living at 2 Sharp's Yard, Mill Gate, Newark.
her birthday was 16 Nov 1909.
she went on to marry in 1930 Mr Colnett E Dethick Newark 7b 1186 ( same reg as mine ? )
the births are also the same reg,
I cannot for the life of Me find who the parents are of my Edith Cree.
any idea's would be really appreciated, at this moment I would prefer not to order birth cert , running out of funds :(
Eilleen.
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1911 census , has a Edith Emily Cree , living at 2 Sharp's Yard, Mill Gate, Newark.
No parents with this one? Who is she with?
She married two different people in 1930 yet is Mrs Catley not Mrs Dethick in 1939 ???
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Looking at the GRO site there are 2 Edith Crees born Newark 1909 - could your Edith be mistaken with her year of birth, my grandmother always gave hers as a year later than it was!
CREE, EDITH mmn BAGGALEY
909 D Quarter
NEWARK
Volume 07B Page 508
CREE, EDITH EMILY mmn SINGLETON
1909 D Quarter
NEWARK
Volume 07B Page 507
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Edith Cree married Walter Catley ref 1181
Edith E Cree married Colnett Dethick ref 1186
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Marriage Jun 1900 Newark
Baggaley Lois
Cree Walter
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Millipede , the wedding for 1900 looks good,
when Edith Cree started having children , she called one Lois ::)
Groom ,
I did wonder about the birthday, my Mum also thought she was born a year later than she actually was.
Eilleen.
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There we go Lois fits :D
There are other Cree/Baggaley births in Newark
John Wellie 1901 (maybe Wellie is short for Walter!)
Eva 1903
Grace 1914
Possible death for Eva 1905 age 2
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Looks as if that one is solved then. ;D ;D
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not yet :) :)
I cannot find Walter and Lois on 1901 ::) ::)
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They could be Penson in the census
Free index 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWSL-ZGM
1901
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSNN-SKD
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That's odd why would they be called Penson :-\
Do those children have the right mothers maiden name?
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I don't know!
Births of Kenneth and Cyril
Sep 1905 Newark 7b 501
Cree, Kenneth
mother Baguley
June 1907 Newark 7b 520
Cree, Cyril
mother Baguley
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Right they do - kind of!
Mystery 8)
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1901 that jonw65 found name Penson
their marriage was way before 1900 ::) ::)
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Something odd going on!
(and a good find,John!)
1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4Z8H-23Z
Walter CREE married Elizabeth HENTON 1884 Newark. :-\
Maureen
EDIT: NO! Sorry! Scratch that. Those two are still together in 1901.
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Hello .
I am getting really confuse ??? ??? ???
I do not see were PEARSON fit in to my search :) :)
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There is this family
1891 - 5 Union Terrace Row, Newark upon Trent, Newark, Nottinghamshire
Walter Cree Head Married Male 31 Nottinghamshire,
Annie Cree Wife Married Female 27 Nottinghamshire
Eliza Cree Daughter Female 5 Scholar Nottinghamshire
Fanny Cree Daughter Female 3 Nottinghamshire
Ellen Cree Daughter Female 1 "
On electrol roll same address in 1891 is a Walter Penson...other years not checked, but there is a mystery, he seems to be the same man.
Cas
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Mmn is Johnson for 1891 family
Marriages Dec Q 1884
Cree Walter Newark 7b 742 *****
Henton Elizabeth Newark 7b 742
JOHNSON Sarah Ann Newark 7b 742 ******
Robinson John Newark 7b 742
Cas
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Death: CREE, SARAH ANN age 32
GRO Reference: 1896 J Quarter in NEWARK Volume 07B Page 229
So he was a widower, still does not explain why the switch between surnames ???
Cas
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Think I found the connection
1861 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M76S-YMF transcribed as Halady
1871 census has Walter Penson (1859) son with mother Eliza and Hallady? Penson
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VB6R-TYJ
So looks like he was born Cree.
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
CREE, WALTER -
GRO Reference: 1859 M Quarter in NEWARK Volume 07B Page 297
1851 Eliza & family https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGDY-ZZP
Cas
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Cas
thank you , I am still with you :)
just trying to get my head round it :)
Eilleen
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Marriages Dec Q 1861
CREE Eliza Newark 7b 501
PONSON Halladay Newark 7b 501
He was years older than Eliza
Think Walter knocked a few years off his in later census as Lois was younger
Cas
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Cas .
Thank you so much , I believe it is all falling in to place ,
I am so grateful, my genealogy head is not what it use to be ::) ::)
but one afternoon with you , has made Me not give up 8)
you can now have the title of Detective Cas. :)
Eilleen.
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I see in 1841 the family address is
Queen Street, Newark, Newark Union, Nottinghamshire
is this the Workhouse , and if so does the following census that give Queen street as their address
mean they were permanently in the workhouse . :'( :)
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Glad to help :)
Just found an online source of the Cree name which includes Eliza, but the info is wrong.
1881- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27K-K2X9 Halliday dies 1873.
Eliza is still alive as Penson and dies 1897. She is a few streets away from Walter in 1891 at King St.
http://cree.name/genealogies/frametop.htm?page=http://cree.name/genealogies/cree-o/p15.htm
Cas
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Crossed checked the other couple married 1861. Found them on census, children's names match mmn.
So defo wrong, would treat the rest with caution.
Cas
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I see in 1841 the family address is
Queen Street, Newark, Newark Union, Nottinghamshire
is this the Workhouse , and if so does the following census that give Queen street as their address
mean they were permanently in the workhouse . :'( :)
No evidence Queen St was a workhouse
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Newark/
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Thank you,
I wonder if your eyes are as boggled as mine ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Thank you,
I wonder if your eyes are as boggled as mine ::) ::) ::) ::)
Maybe a little ::)
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I am stressing again ??? ??? is this supose to be the same family ??? ???
1911 4 Northen Buildings Newark, Newark upon Trent living in 4 rooms. ( name change again ?? )
married 11 years, had 5 children , 4 still living. writting rough ?
Walter Penson Head General Labourer 48 1863 Newark
Lois Penson Wife Engin Driver 34 1877 Newark
Willie Penson Son School 10 1901 Newark
Kenneth Penson Son School 7 1904 Newark
Cyril Penson Son 4 1907 Newark
Edith Penson Daughter 1 1910 Newark
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1901 Northern Buildings, 4, Lovers Lane, Newark, Newark upon Trent
Walter Penson Head 38 1863 Gas Engine Driver Newark, Nottinghamshire,
Lois Penson Wife 31 1870 Newark,
Janey Penson Daughter 14 1887 At School Newark,
Nellie Penson Daughter 13 1888 At School Newark,
Walter Penson Son 11 1890 At School Newark, Nottinghamshire,
Milly Penson Daughter 4 1897 At School Newark,
1900 marriage, Newark, Walter Cree to Lois Baggaley
death 1896, Sarah Ann Cree , aged 32 years, Newark.
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1901 children have mmn Johnson so belong to first wife.
Janey = Fanny
Nellie = Ellen
Walter has mmn Johnson
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
CREE, WALTER Mmn JOHNSON
GRO Reference: 1891 S Quarter in NEWARK Volume 07B Page 416
Was also a son Horace b 1893 d 1896
Still checking Milly
Cas
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Not locating Milly at mo.
But the child that died in 1911 census was Eva b 1903 d 1905
Cas
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Suggestion for Milly - brace yourselves -
Mar 1897 Newark
Millicent Whiteley Baggaley
Mothers maiden name Johnson
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Looks a good possible that Milly was not a child of couple with first wife, as she died 1896. Possibly a relation of Lois or Walter and took her in as part of family?
1911 all 4 children accounted, 1 died.
Those who have searched cannot connect Milly to family with first wife and she was not born to Lois.
Cas
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interesting with the names though as there is also a
Lois Johannah Baggaley mothers name Johnson born Dec 1893 Newark
Sister of Millicent perhaps but don't know where they were in 1901 to see who parents were.
By 1911 this Lois is 17 married with a daughter - also called Lois Johannah!
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What a web this family managed to produce :)
not so much a family tree, more a bramble bush.
but I would not have got all the above information without the help
of you amazing people :-* :-*
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flipping heck, its like four jigsaw's all muddled up .
look at this
in 1939. Lois Cree , birth 10 Dec 1870 Incapacitated Widowed aged 69.
is living with Mr and Mrs Carrington , mrs Carrington was Grace Cree born 1914
Mothers name Baggaley .
I am defiantly losing the plot ??? ??? its like musical chairs with people ,
all stand up and move about , land were ever you wish ;D ;D
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At least 4 jigsaws Eilleen ;D
As an aside I think Richard Baggaley and Fanny Johnson marriage Jun 1890 could be the parents of Millicent and Lois Johannah.
In 1901 Richard is a widower with son Albert 11 and Lois 7.
As we know Milly was with Walter and Lois Penson as a daughter in 1901.
There's a Fanny death in Sep 1898 age 30 could be her.
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Once again A massive thank you for all your help :-*
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Richard is Lois' brother (they're together on 1881 - Lois transcribed as Louis by ancestry)
wondering if there's any connection between Fanny Johnson and Sarah Ann?
Couple of options for Fanny Johnson, but I think she is the one who is a servant in 1881 and with uncle and aunt Robert and Mary Whiteley in 1871 (see Millicent's middle name). Mary Whiteley's maiden name was Taylor - there's a Fanny Johnson b Newark 1868, mmn Taylor
Interestingly there's this
JOHNSON, SARAH ANN mmn TAYLOR
Q4 1863 NEWARK Volume 07B Page 293
So potentially, Robert Baggaley and Walter Cree/Penson marry sisters. Both are widowed with young children to care for within a couple of years of each other. Walter then marries his first wife's brother in law's sister and they take on their mutual niece Millicent, so supporting Robert
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Suggestion for Milly - brace yourselves -
Mar 1897 Newark
Millicent Whiteley Baggaley
Mothers maiden name Johnson
Baptism Newark, St Leonard
9 feb 1897 Millicent Whiteley dau of Richard & Fanny Baggaly abode 2 Alliance Buildings father a foundryman.
13 Oct 1893 Lois Johanna dau of Richard & Fanny Baggaley abode 21 George St father a labourer.
Newark Christ Church
16 Nov 1890 Albert Victor son of Richard & Fanny Baggaley abode 2 Lenton terrace father a foundryman.
Marriage Newark, St Leonard
27 Apr 1900 Walter Cree and Lois Baggaley
Baptisms Newark, St Mary Mag.
8 Apr 1866 Sarah Ann dau of George & Sarah Johnson abode Chester Place father a labourer.
23 Feb 1868 Fanny dau George Edward & Sarah Johnson abode Chester Place, Cross Lane father a railway porter.
There is also a Mary baptised 1866, Harriet in 1870
Marriage Newark St Mary Mag.
17 Nov 1861 George Edward Johnson & Sarah Taylor
Marriage Newark Christ Church
27 Apr 1890 Richard Baggaley and Fanny Johnson
Sorry if I have duplicated anything.
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Sorry if I have duplicated anything.
Not at all - all supporting evidence welcome. DO yuo have anything further on the marriages to show whether Fanny & Sarah Taylor are sisters, e.g. father's name, witnesses, addresses?
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If you go onto freereg Fanny Johnson's marriage is there with her fathers name George.
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/58184e90e93790eb7f8e5596?search_id=5a0172e9f4040ba914dcfeba&ucf=false
Sarah Ann appears to be a sister to Fanny, Sarah Taylor, who married George Edward Johnson, is their mother.
Baptisms Newark, St Mary Mag.
8 Apr 1866 Sarah Ann dau of George & Sarah Johnson abode Chester Place father a labourer.
23 Feb 1868 Fanny dau George Edward & Sarah Johnson abode Chester Place, Cross Lane father a railway porter.