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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: wdytya on Tuesday 07 November 17 12:22 GMT (UK)

Title: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: wdytya on Tuesday 07 November 17 12:22 GMT (UK)
I am returning to this part of my FH after a break as previously I had failed to break down "my wall". My ancestors were from London and having traced back to the marriage and death of my gr gr gr grandfather Thomas Dewis I have never been able to find his birth and parents. He was married 20th August 1832 in the parish of St Dustan Stepney and died in Guys hospital December 1839, death registered St Olave Southwark and name misspelt as Dewars. He was buried at St Andrews Undershaft church, I think in the parish of St Katherine Kree, on the 22 Dec 1839 aged 38. The problem is I suppose as in all London searches is knowing which parish he was born in as there are so many.I think it must be an impossible task especially if you are unable to travel to the records offices in London, but then if you could which records do you search?
One other thing, when the churchyard of St Andrews Undershaft was built over by skyscrapers they must have dug down a great depth for the foundations so would they have moved the remains  the buried people, if so where would they have been re-buried or did they just concrete the area over?
any thoughts are very welcome.
Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: stanmapstone on Tuesday 07 November 17 13:28 GMT (UK)
One other thing, when the churchyard of St Andrews Undershaft was built over by skyscrapers they must have dug down a great depth for the foundations so would they have moved the remains  the buried people, if so where would they have been re-buried or did they just concrete the area over?
any thoughts are very welcome.
According to this 1951 map there was no churchyard of St Andrews Undershaft there then
http://maps.nls.uk/view/103031118#zoom=4&lat=2696&lon=2414&layers=BT
This is called the Churchyard at https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/St_Andrew_Undershaft_with_St_Mary_Axe,_London_Genealogy#Cemetery

Street View https://goo.gl/maps/witdnr41afD2
Stan
Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: wdytya on Tuesday 07 November 17 15:01 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the info, I will have a good read through it. As Thomas was a chimney sweep I doubt his widow had money for a headstone etc. The churchyard extended around the church and the os of 1878 shows buildings built over the site.
Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: Annette7 on Tuesday 07 November 17 20:42 GMT (UK)
You don't mention that his marriage in 1832 gives his name as 'Duies'. 

I think the major problem is how his name would have been recorded at his birth.   I note that the name 'Dewis' is prevalent in Warwickshire and suspect this could be where he came from.    The name/variants in London are few and far between before his marriage in 1832.

Annette

Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: wdytya on Wednesday 08 November 17 09:33 GMT (UK)
Yes I agree that the further you go back the name could be spelt differently as illiteracy was common and so the name was written as it was said. Mind you there a records of bmd in the name of Dewis in the 1500,s 1600,s 1700,s and these persons living in London. The name goes back to the Walloons and there are a number of Dewis’s who were weavers in London. I have yet to find a Warwickshire connection with Thomas, maybe someone will find one?
Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: jennifer c on Thursday 09 November 17 19:30 GMT (UK)
Do you have all the information on his wife Elizabeth's second marriage and the children?

Jennifer
Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: wdytya on Thursday 09 November 17 22:52 GMT (UK)
I know she married a Samuel Gardiner. Would be interested to read what information you have in case I do not have this.
Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: jennifer c on Friday 10 November 17 09:05 GMT (UK)
Is that your tree on line?

Jennifer
Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: wdytya on Friday 10 November 17 09:25 GMT (UK)
I do not think it is, Over the years I have shared information when asked so it might be the tree of that person. Can I access it or do I need a subscription?
Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: jennifer c on Saturday 11 November 17 14:31 GMT (UK)
Its on Ancestry.

Jennifer
Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: wdytya on Sunday 12 November 17 09:55 GMT (UK)
Having looked on Ancestry there are a few Dewis tree records. I cannot open them as I do not have a subscription but looking at the names there does not appear to be any record earlier than Thomas Dewis b 1801.
It must be an onerous task to search through every record contained in every London parish records even if you live or can travel to London. How do professional FH researchers do it?
Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: wdytya on Tuesday 21 November 17 11:38 GMT (UK)
Any further suggestions would be much appreciated before I put this issue to one side for a while as probably a trip to the London records office is needed or a professional researcher who will know where to search?
Thanks for all your help, you are all generous with your knowledge and time
Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: amondg on Tuesday 21 November 17 12:31 GMT (UK)
Have you considered the marriage of Thomas Dewis of Bedworth Warwickshire to Sarah Webb of St Botolph's without Bishopgate she was a minor married by license 26 February 1799
Witness Thomas Darlson, Ann Shank. All signed.

ADDED
The marriage bond may have more information if it has survived
Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: jennifer c on Tuesday 21 November 17 13:07 GMT (UK)
Good find. Looks like there could be a daughter Sarah  born 7/12/1800 bap. 22/12/1800 St Leonards Shoreditch parents Thomas & Sarah Dewis. Can anyone see more information on this?

Jennifer
Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: jennifer c on Tuesday 21 November 17 13:29 GMT (UK)
Looks to be Elizabeth in 1841 census indexed under the name Davis

6 Booker Gardens St Katherines Cree Church

Elizabeth 29
Thomas 9
Christopher 4
Emma 3

Jennifer
Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: jennifer c on Tuesday 21 November 17 13:32 GMT (UK)
St Andrew Undershaft

Christopher Antony Dewis born 13/12/1836 bapt 14/5/1837

Parents Thomas & Sarah occ Chimneysweep address 3 Greyhound Alley.

Jennifer
Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: jennifer c on Tuesday 21 November 17 13:43 GMT (UK)
19/2/1843 St Johns Bethnal Green

Samuel Gardiner bach Sweep  father Robert Gardiner Sweep
Elizabeth Dewis widow father Angel Byrne? Gunsmith both of 7 Bookers Gardens

Jennifer
Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: jennifer c on Tuesday 21 November 17 13:46 GMT (UK)
The other marriage gives Elizabeth Evans?

Jennifer
Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: jennifer c on Tuesday 21 November 17 13:59 GMT (UK)
There is an Angel Byrne death in 1838 Whitechapel possible father. The Angel Byrne gunsmith on the census is most likely her brother similar age also a gunsmith.

Jennifer
Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: jennifer c on Tuesday 21 November 17 14:18 GMT (UK)
1841 census Back Road St Geo.in the East

Angel Byrne 25 Gunsmith
Esther 25
Esther 3
Martha 1

Jennifer
Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: jennifer c on Tuesday 21 November 17 14:22 GMT (UK)
An A Byrne is a witness to the first marriage in 1832 to Elizabeth Evans?

Jennifer
Title: Re: Where do I look for Thomas Dewis?
Post by: wdytya on Tuesday 21 November 17 14:53 GMT (UK)
Thank you for your replies. My Thomas Dewis (spelt on many records incorrectly as I guess they could not read and write so it was recorded as it was said/heard) is the one that married Elizabeth Evans although my research, as you have found, she said on her second marriage that her father was Angel Byrne. On the marriage parish record Elizabeth Evans states she is a spinster and on the birth certificate of her daughter she says her maiden name is Evans. Never got to the bottom of that one either. During their marriage they lived in Bookers Gardens and Greyhound Alley so in different parishes? which might explain the St Andrews Undershaft parish record showing abode as St Katherine Cree. All of Thomas’s children were baptised in St Andrews Undershaft church so maybe Thomas's wife wanted him buried there although they were living in another parish.