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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Teletran on Saturday 11 November 17 14:30 GMT (UK)
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Hello, can anybody identify the uniforms from the photos attached? It is my great-grandfather, I am assuming one is first world war by the cap but it is a guess to say the least. The other picture appears to be earlier but I am really without a clue. Any information would be fantastic to know. Kind regards and many thanks, Stephen.
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The second photo is the City Imperial Volunteers in South Africa during the Boer War.
http://www.britishmedals.us/kevin/other/mumford.html
The first photo could be the Cape Town Highlanders Regiment or another South African Scottish linked unit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Town_Highlanders_Regiment
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While I can't give an answer I would venture to disagree with the Cape Town Highlanders suggestion. The first photo has the black buttons with a bugle of a Rifle/Light Infantry regiment.
MaxD
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Interesting information chaps. Looking at the family history, Thomas (chap in the photo) and his parents and great grandparents appear to have lived in the London and South east area, I cannot see where the South African element comes into it?
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I know very little about military history, but I do know that young Englishmen travelled to South Africa to fight in the 2nd Boer War - I have a family member born and bred in Essex who fought and died in SA.
Your man - have you found him on the 1901 census?
Amended: Should have said that my family member was NOT a member of the Armed Forces prior to his service in SA. He was a Grocer ;D
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Interesting information chaps. Looking at the family history, Thomas (chap in the photo) and his parents and great grandparents appear to have lived in the London and South east area, I cannot see where the South African element comes into it?
CIV full title is the City of London Imperial Volunteers, so Thomas would have joined the CIV in London and then been sent out to South Africa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London_Imperial_Volunteers
My tentative suggestion of the Cape Town Highlanders was based on the collar insignia resembling a motif on their regimental badge, as MaxD has pointed out this does not fit with the tunic buttons. So there may be no South African connection for the first photo.
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Replying to BumbleB, yes he does appear on the 1901 census. Would the "black buttons with a bugle of a Rifle/Light Infantry regiment" imply a British unit?
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It is certainly the hall mark of British rifle and /or Light Infantry regiments.
The phot was taken in London. London had a multitude of Rifle Volunteer units around the turn of the century, members of many of which would have volunteered for full time service in the Boer War in the CIV among others. Can't find it now but I have seen a set of full colour plates of uniforms of many of the units.
MaxD
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Good evening,
The collar badge in first photo shows a mailec fist holding a spear or lightning bolt. That is part of the Honourable Artillery Coy badge although theirs is winged.
A large number of them served in SA with a variety of units but most were with the CIV. I can find no reference to them having LI buttons though. But could be a line of search.
John915
Added, looking at their history they originally had several types of coy. Including light infantry so could be that some were sent in this role to SA hence the buttons.
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Thanks for the message John, does the fact the badge is not 'winged' through any doubt on the connection to Artillery coy badge or could it be a simple variation on 'style'? Forgive me, not sure what you mean by Ll buttons? Kind Regards Stephen
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Looking at the internet photo likely to be taken around 1900? I found a record on Findyourpast which match his name and gave a Service number 700, City of London Imperial Volunteers, Roll - WO100/231 (do I have access to this?) QSA Clasps: P,J,CC - Boer wars, I don't suppose you can make sense of this? I am trying to find some records/ scans on Ancestry - find my past etc. Thanks again, Stephen
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That was a very good spot John. I have been able to find one photo of CIV men (Google images "City of London Imperial Volunteers Dress) that shows black buttons and the rather distinctive service dress type. Collar badge does not appear to be worn but that may have been taken off or perhaps only worn by officers. The slight variation in collar badge (no wings in this case) is not unusual, collar badges do/did sometime include only elements of the main badge.
My feeling is we are getting nearer. Suggestion - photo 1 in London before deployment to SA, photo two in SA.
Check his name with the HAC may be the way to go and maybe even invite comment on the photo. In my experience they are very helpful
https://www.hac.org.uk/home/about-the-hac/history/archives/
Wait till after the Lord Mayor's dinner on Monday though, they'll all be hung over!
MaxD
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Thanks MaxD, I will give it a try. Kr Stephen
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Good morning,
I looked at that site Max, look at 1900 on the left side. CIV artillery unit was officered and mostly manned by HAC.
John915
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Good evening all, this is a continuation from my thread below. This is another picture of Thomas which to me is looking to be 15 odd years newer than those taken around the Boer war, so suspect relating to WW1. The cap looks a bit more official but that is only my take, any thoughts?
Once again many thanks
Stephen
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I'll try again.. the right way up.