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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: iolaus on Monday 13 November 17 16:43 GMT (UK)
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I wonder if anyone would be able to help me and have better luck tracking down my husbands great, great grandfather from the limited information I have
Thomas John Pugsley born approx 1871 in Somerset
from his marriage on 25th Jan 1896 to Sarah Ann Gillard he is Thomas John PUGSLEY, aged 25 and his father is also Thomas Pugsley
1901 census
Thomas Pugsley aged 30 living in Dinas, Rhondda born in 'Somersetshire' with his wife and two children
His death in 1905 in Pontypridd has him just as Thomas Pugsley
Thanks in advance for reading this
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Have you discounted this one?
Births Mar 1868
PUGSLEY Thomas
Williton 5c 355
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Does the move from somerset to glamorganshire fit into other things you know about your family? The pugsley name is fairly common in that area of wales so perhaps there were family connections and also the area was a big coal mining area.
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Only thing i can find in parish records is a John Thomas PUGSLEY Baptism 06 May 1872 Somerset Dulverton : All Saints : Parish Register Row 6 parents john and elizabeth
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Do you know anything about his wife sarah, was she born 1870 rimpton somerset daughter of james and maria gillard with siblings mary anne john fred william
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Have you discounted this one?
Births Mar 1868
PUGSLEY Thomas
Williton 5c 355
This one appears to be the son of Thomas Javier Pugsley and Ann Venn and seems to have married Mary Jane Ward in 1891.
Isobel
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Only thing i can find in parish records is a John Thomas PUGSLEY Baptism 06 May 1872 Somerset Dulverton : All Saints : Parish Register Row 6 parents john and elizabeth
That one appears to have died in infancy
PUGSLEY, JOHN THOMAS age 0
1872 June Quarter - DULVERTON Volume 05C Page 257
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The Pugsleys of Dulverton might nonetheless be still worth looking at . The groindex has mmn as Johns for John Thomas Pugsley. There is this marriage in Dulverton - May 20th 1872 Thomas Pugsley (widower) and Elizabeth Johns but 1871 census has this
Thomas Pugsley 59 Ag lab widower
Elizabeth Johns 28 Step daughter unmarried
Frank Yeandle 5 Grandson
Address Higher Spire, Dulverton (baptism of JohnThomas High Spiers).
Possible death for above Thomas Puglsey 1876.
If nothing else a potentially intriguing set up!
William
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Do you know anything about his wife sarah, was she born 1870 rimpton somerset daughter of james and maria gillard with siblings mary anne john fred william
I believe Sarah was born 1879 in Llanwonno to Thomas Gillard and Ellen Walters (I can't find her birth registration but she's listed with them as daughter
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Does the move from somerset to glamorganshire fit into other things you know about your family? The pugsley name is fairly common in that area of wales so perhaps there were family connections and also the area was a big coal mining area.
I know they were English and moved to Wales to work in the pits
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Have you discounted this one?
Births Mar 1868
PUGSLEY Thomas
Williton 5c 355
I think I found him on the 1901 census so he's a different one, but thank you
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Only thing i can find in parish records is a John Thomas PUGSLEY Baptism 06 May 1872 Somerset Dulverton : All Saints : Parish Register Row 6 parents john and elizabeth
I did think of him - unfortunately he dies as a baby
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The Pugsleys of Dulverton might nonetheless be still worth looking at . The groindex has mmn as Johns for John Thomas Pugsley. There is this marriage in Dulverton - May 20th 1872 Thomas Pugsley (widower) and Elizabeth Johns but 1871 census has this
Thomas Pugsley 59 Ag lab widower
Elizabeth Johns 28 Step daughter unmarried
Frank Yeandle 5 Grandson
Address Higher Spire, Dulverton (baptism of JohnThomas High Spiers).
Possible death for above Thomas Puglsey 1876.
If nothing else a potentially intriguing set up!
William
I wonder - I did see a George Pugsley born 1874 who died in Pontypridd who I thought may be a brother - from Somerset - whose MMN was Yeandle (I think he was Earnest George) - but then couldn't find Thomas with them on the 1881 census
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what information are you absolutely certain of?
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He is buried Trealaw Cemetery
Burial No 14470 - Pugsley Thomas John Age 33 plot no M976 died 1905
Others in same plot number M976 include:
Burial No 9123 - Pugsley Lilly age 11 mths died 1899
Burial No 44697 - Pugsley Benjamin age 36 died 1937
Cas
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1911 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW6Y-V95
Sarah parents were Edward & Ellen
Marriages Dec Q 1878 Same page
GILLARD Edward Pontypridd 11a 437
WALTERS Ellen Pontypridd 11a 437
Marriage online - think Sarah was born prior to marriage, age 3 in 1881, sister Mary age one, b Dec Q 1879.
Burial details for Gillard if needed in Trealaw cem.
Cas
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Still no nearer to finding his origins, but he died in a colliery accident
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3828841/3828847/59/Thomas%20Pugsley%20%20AND%20Pugsley
Seems Sarah was having twins.
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
PUGSLEY, EDITH MARY GILLARD
GRO Reference: 1905 D Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 558
PUGSLEY, LILIAN GILLARD
GRO Reference: 1905 D Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 558
Cas
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Sarah remarried
1911 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW6R-N6C
Marriages Sep Q 1910
Coxley Evan Pontypridd 11a 1033
Pugsley Sarah A Pontypridd 11a 1033
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What am I sure of - not a huge deal to be honest
My husband descends from his daughter Edith Mary and knows very little about that side of the family (he thinks she lived in Porth (definately Rhondda, he'e from Trefforest) but she died when he was little and his grandfather - Edith's son - vanished during the 60s) but obviously as her father died before her birth (Edith was born 30th August 1905) I presume she didn't know,
His father's name is taken from his marriage certificate (as is the middle name - everything else he is just Thomas)
Benjamin is Edith's older brother - so I would say that is definately the grave thank you
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At Thomas's death the surviving children were Thomas Edward (aged 9) Benjamin (aged 5) and Charles (aged 3) which fits with the article you so kindly posted, and Sarah must have been about 4 months pregnant with the twins (assuming they weren't premature) at his death
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Can you give us the full information from the marriage certificate please - addresses, occupations, witnesses etc. It may provide a fresh lead.
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Need to hunt it out - it's not at my house but as soon as I do I will post it
Thanks to all so far
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I had never heard of the name Pugsley until a few years ago, when I was tracing some Stephenson relatives in Edinburgh. In 1864 Elizabeth Stephenson pursued Charles Pugsley, sergeant-major in the Royal Artillery, in the Sheriff Court for money for the maintenance of their illegitimate daughter, born in 1863. The court found in Elizabeth's favour. To put the child's paternity beyond doubt, Elizabeth christened her Jane Ann Charlotte Pugsley Stephenson!
A distant relative managed to find Charles Pugsley's birth in 1831 in Harberton, Devon.
Harry
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Burial details for Gillard if needed in Trealaw cem.
Cas
Would be much appreciated if you have them, thank you so much
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1911 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW6Y-V95
Sarah parents were Edward & Ellen
Marriages Dec Q 1878 Same page
GILLARD Edward Pontypridd 11a 437
WALTERS Ellen Pontypridd 11a 437
Marriage online - think Sarah was born prior to marriage, age 3 in 1881, sister Mary age one, b Dec Q 1879.
Think I found her - birth registered as Sarah Ann WATERS in Pontypridd Dec 1877
On the 1939 register her birthdate is 31 October 1875, so realised if the date (but not the year) was right and she was 3 in Apr 1881 then she'd have been born 1877 not 1878.
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Burial details for Gillard if needed in Trealaw cem.
There are only around 19 'Gillard' burials listed in index, if you have any particular names not in list below, will have another look.
The internment records can be had via any FH Library like Ponty or Aberdare, I had mine sent via email a long while ago, don't know if they still do, but you can ask via email if not in location.
Burial No 44619 Gillard Edward plot G962 age 79 died 1937
Others in same plot no G962 include:
Burial 13542 Gillard Thomas Watters age 11 mths died 1904 (think this must be Walters)
Burial 42151 Gillard Lea Helena age 77 died 1934
Burial 2900 Gillard Charles age 1 died 1890
Burial 13576 Gillard Alfred age 8mths died 1904
Cas
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Will they just email them all over then?
May pop into Ponty library and ask
Thank you very much
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Will they just email them all over then?
May pop into Ponty library and ask
Thank you very much
If able would pop into Ponty Library. I did all mine from Treorchy, but library have since closed due to cuts.. Wonderful FH library & staff
Would ask.
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May have to order Thomas Walters Gillard's birth certificate - he was born illegitamately Sept 1903 - but as he's not direct relative (as by then Sarah was a Pugsley) it'll be a way down the list
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and thanks so much for Lea Helena - I thought I had found Ellen's birth as Leah Ellen Waters - on 1871 she's Leah E Waters, on most she's Ellen Gillard, one she's Eleanor. And the death I believed was her was Lea H Gillard (born 1857) - if she and Edward are in the same grave it kind of proves that she was Leah even if known, and married as Ellen
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The cem was opened 1881. Seems the plot was purchased for the death of Charles in 1890 which was son of Edward & Ellen. Thomas & Alfred I think are grandchildren to Edward/Ellen. The plot would only hold 5 burials. Both births have no mmn listed so unlikely children of couple.
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by the 1911 census they only have 1 child who have died - Charles
Alfred Ford Gillard appears to be another illegitamate grandson
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The internment record only holds name, occ, address, date of death, burial/plot number and sig of informant which maybe family member, friend or undertaker. No cause of death as in DC.
Cas
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Can you give us the full information from the marriage certificate please - addresses, occupations, witnesses etc. It may provide a fresh lead.
Got hold of the certificate (and the twins birth certificates today)
25 Jan 1896 in St Davids Church, Llanwonno
Thomas John Pugsley (aged 24) bachelor, profession Miner, residence Dinas, Father Thomas Pugsley, labourer (deceased)
Sarah Ann Gillard (aged 18) spinster, residence Dinas. Father Edward Gillard, miner
Witnesses
William Hall and Mary Gillard
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Only thing i can find in parish records is a John Thomas PUGSLEY Baptism 06 May 1872 Somerset Dulverton : All Saints : Parish Register Row 6 parents john and elizabeth
That one appears to have died in infancy
PUGSLEY, JOHN THOMAS age 0
1872 June Quarter - DULVERTON Volume 05C Page 257
Also Milmoore's comment
The Pugsleys of Dulverton might nonetheless be still worth looking at . The groindex has mmn as Johns for John Thomas Pugsley. There is this marriage in Dulverton - May 20th 1872 Thomas Pugsley (widower) and Elizabeth Johns but 1871 census has this
Thomas Pugsley 59 Ag lab widower
Elizabeth Johns 28 Step daughter unmarried
Frank Yeandle 5 Grandson
Address Higher Spire, Dulverton (baptism of JohnThomas High Spiers).
Possible death for above Thomas Puglsey 1876.
If nothing else a potentially intriguing set up!
In the same batch of certificate's I've been given is a birth certificate
John Thomas Pugsley born 5th JUNE 1872 in Dulverton
father Thomas Pugsley a farm labourer
mother Elizabeth Pugsley formerly Johns
Thomas gives his mark as the informant on seventeenth June
So despite me ruling out the John Thomas Pugsley on the basis of the death aged zero, maybe it's not - this John Thomas Pugsley to THOMAS and Elizabeth is born AFTER John Thomas Pugsley, son of JOHN and Elizabeth, was baptised
Could there be two Pugsley babies born at a similar time in Dulverton? - I can only see the registration of one though