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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: SandraAust on Thursday 16 November 17 00:36 GMT (UK)
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Hi all.
I'm looking for information re the above. The first proven record for him is a 1931 newspaper article for his first marriage: https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/HC19310401.2.14.17?query=henwood%20otaki
They had five children before he mysteriously left the family and is then seen living in Waikato and Auckland by mid 1940 electoral rolls. He has then formed a relationship that led to another four children (some of whom are living but at least one is aware that I am researching and has been helpful with information) and eventually marriage though no divorce appears to have taken place. The first wife died in 1959 so it is possible that was the impetus for marriage.
You will see that the newspaper article indicates his background was Irish and indeed a daughter from his first marriage grew up believing him to have been such. The second family were told he was born on a specific date in New Plymouth in 1897. Quite different obviously so I'm wondering if there is any way to backtrack prior to the 1931 article.
I have a couple of my own theories that I won't put in print but I also wonder about his cemetery plaque giving a military service number plus involvement in both WW's where I can find no record either on Archway or Aust Archives. Irish census for 1901 and 1911 show no family of that name in County Cavan.
Fingers crossed for anything that can be found prior to 1931 that might prove his background. I have already found PapersPast articles re his taxi driving so don't need those.
TIA
Sandra
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Hi Sandra,
You will have seen this? Same person? but born in Cornwall..........
https://www.ancestry.com/boards/thread.aspx?mv=tree&m=147&p=surnames.henwood
Minniehaha.
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Hi minniehaha,
Definitely the same person in question but nothing on UK BMD to support that name, though it brings me back to a suspicion I have. Is it okay if I PM you with my thoughts?
Oh and this is related to the German STONE family you were looking at for me a few weeks ago, though the other side of the same husband/wife.
Sandra
Hi Sandra,
You will have seen this? Same person? but born in Cornwall..........
https://www.ancestry.com/boards/thread.aspx?mv=tree&m=147&p=surnames.henwood
Minniehaha.
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Hi Sandra,
Go for it.....
I look forward to hearing from you.
Helen.
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Possibly the idea that William was born in Cornwall (in the Ancestry message board thread) came from the birth registration of William Henry HENWOOD in Jun qtr 1897 Falmouth, Cornwall (mother's maiden name MITCHELL), most likely Henry HENWOOD jnr and Mary Ellen MITCHELL - the family can be found on the 1901 and 1911 census in Tregony, Cornwall.
I don't think this is "your" William, though I haven't checked further.
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Thanks Maddy,
Yes HENWOOD seems to have been a pretty common name in Cornwall and why oh why did everyone have the same name???? ;)
Sandra
Possibly the idea that William was born in Cornwall (in the Ancestry message board thread) came from the birth registration of William Henry HENWOOD in Jun qtr 1897 Falmouth, Cornwall (mother's maiden name MITCHELL), most likely Henry HENWOOD jnr and Mary Ellen MITCHELL - the family can be found on the 1901 and 1911 census in Tregony, Cornwall.
I don't think this is "your" William, though I haven't checked further.
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What information is on the 1931 marriage certificate?
There are some Henwoods in New Plymouth, possibly related? Illegitimacy or adoption involved?
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/146898594
the "103330" could be his number, but 10/3330 is a Hingston Bond Luscombe:
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=10921120&digital=yes
This man was married, but he divorced 1920, remarried 1922 - can't find a death for him ???
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Mmm ... the memorial plaque bearing his service number, also includes > A. I. F. > which suggests he served in the Australian Imperial Forces. ???
~ Lu
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https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/146898594
the "103330" could be his number, but 10/3330 is a Hingston Bond Luscombe:
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=10921120&digital=yes
This man was married, but he divorced 1920, remarried 1922 - can't find a death for him ???
Henry Bond LUSCOMBE the son of above, died at Wellington in December 1939. His mother, Anne Maria SIEVERS made application for administration of his estate in 1950 at which time she stated that Hingston Bond LUSCOMBE could not be traced.
Added: Florence, the 2nd wife (1922), died in NZ in 1955. Her will dated 1953 (listing her as "married woman") doesn't mention a husband ... her 3 children were named beneficiaries of her estate.
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haha Would you believe that is the man (in your link) I have been discussing behind the scenes with minniehaha? I have no proof whatsover but the similarities are you too much to ignore. He certainly disappeared completely after that second marriage didn't he?
I don't have the marriage cert from 1931 and because I'm researching as a favour I'm not willing to purchase it either. The newspaper notice says his parents were from County Cavan and IF they never went to NZ then it would be assumed that he was also born there though once again nothing found.
I'm guessing illegitimacy but he sounds like a very intelligent man so seems to have been provided with a good education. This info is from a dau from the second relationship/marriage.
What information is on the 1931 marriage certificate?
There are some Henwoods in New Plymouth, possibly related? Illegitimacy or adoption involved?
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/146898594
the "103330" could be his number, but 10/3330 is a Hingston Bond Luscombe:
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=10921120&digital=yes
This man was married, but he divorced 1920, remarried 1922 - can't find a death for him ???
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Thanks Lu. Aust Archives was one of the first places I looked and def nothing for him with a similar name etc. His dau from the second relationship has applied for his NZ military file but there are lengthy delays so it could be several months before she hears anything. There are photos of him in uniform outside what appears to be barracks. His face is clearly seen so she knows it was him.
Mmm ... the memorial plaque bearing his service number, also includes > A. I. F. > which suggests he served in the Australian Imperial Forces. ???
~ Lu
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I looked at HBL's military file on Archway and it says on one of the many pages that he couldn't be traced. I think it was also to do with the death of his son. Funnily enough it also mentions that he served in WWI but not WW2 and left me with the impression that the family thought that he might have.
The similarities between these two men, time of disappearance of HBL, appearance of WHH, service number etc is amazing. DNA testing is looking good but I think I would be overstepping boundaries if I suggested that.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/146898594
the "103330" could be his number, but 10/3330 is a Hingston Bond Luscombe:
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=10921120&digital=yes
This man was married, but he divorced 1920, remarried 1922 - can't find a death for him ???
Henry Bond LUSCOMBE the son of above, died at Wellington in December 1939. His mother, Anne Maria SIEVERS made application for administration of his estate in 1950 at which time she stated that Hingston Bond LUSCOMBE could not be traced.
Added: Florence, the 2nd wife (1922), died in NZ in 1955. Her will dated 1953 (listing her as "married woman") doesn't mention a husband ... her 3 children were named beneficiaries of her estate.
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His dau from the second relationship has applied for his NZ military file but there are lengthy delays so it could be several months before she hears anything. There are photos of him in uniform outside what appears to be barracks. His face is clearly seen so she knows it was him.
Hi
Just curious, but why has a New Zealand Military file been applied for when his service seems to have been for Australia (A.I.F. ) ??? [The plaque also has an Australian emblem embossed / engraved , on it ? ]
* Do you have the photos of him in uniform ... and are you able to post them in this thread ?
~ Lu
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Sorry Lu, I didn't make that clear enough. His dau says he was definitely in RNZAF but she remembers being told that he fought for NZ but WITH Aust during WWI. Possibly during the Gallipoli campaign which would have made him around 18 IF he was born in 1897 like she believes.
I'll come back in a minute with a pic that crops out or fuzzies his head if I can figure out how to do it.
His dau from the second relationship has applied for his NZ military file but there are lengthy delays so it could be several months before she hears anything. There are photos of him in uniform outside what appears to be barracks. His face is clearly seen so she knows it was him.
Hi
Just curious, but why has a New Zealand Military file been applied for when his service seems to have been for Australia (A.I.F. ) ??? [The plaque also has an Australian emblem embossed / engraved , on it ? ]
* Do you have the photos of him in uniform ... and are you able to post them in this thread ?
~ Lu
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Should be two pics attached.
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Thanks for the clarification. ;D
I was just about to mention that WHH showed up in NZ electoral rolls in later years when he was living in the Auckland area, with the occupation of "Airman" on the e/rolls of 1954 and 1957.
Prior to this > 1935 / 1938 / 1941 / 1946 / 1949 > he was listed as a "Driver or Motor Driver".
In 1963 his occupation was "clerk".
~ Lu
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... your photos came thru ... loud and clear. ;)
Next question :
* Does the daughter you speak about here, have a copy of her own birth certificate, which shows her parents' birthplaces ??
~ Lu
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I don't know how to resize the pics but they are rather large aren't they? ;D
K (the dau) remembers seeing her b/c and it said dad born New Plymouth BUT one of her brothers (same mother) says that his shows dad born London. Yet another brother, now deceased, had been researching and is said to have been able to discount both locations but his wife has everything in storage and is currently unable to access the paperwork.
One of K's brothers made an attempt several (Many?) years ago to speak to one of the dau's from WHH's first family (the 1931 marriage). Apparently she refused to speak to him. Needless to say that there will be no assistance given from the first family.
minniehaha suggested contacting the Methodist Church for any additional information but I see that their archives are currently unavailable (rehoused after Christchurch quakes).
... your photos came thru ... loud and clear. ;)
Next question :
* Does the daughter you speak about here, have a copy of her own birth certificate, which shows her parents' birthplaces ??
~ Lu
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...... he fought for NZ but WITH Aust during WWI. Possibly during the Gallipoli campaign
Except that there is no NZ service record. The company which produced the cemetery plaque should have been aware of legislation forbidding the use of the Rising Sun emblem without written permission. Why would his plaque carry the AIF emblem instead of NZ?
Perhaps your friend is not aware of the depth of information on a NZ marriage cert....
Bride and Groom
When and where married
Name and surname of the parties
Ages
Rank or profession
Condition of parties
Bachelor or spinster (or as case may be)
If widow or widower date of death of former wife or husband
Birthplace
Residence: Present, Usual
Parents
Father's name and surname
Father's rank or profession
Mothers name and Maiden surname
Signatures
Bride and groom
Witnesses
Officiating minister (or Registrar)
https://bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/dataCollected/marriage
Debra :)
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The similarities between these two men, time of disappearance of HBL, appearance of WHH, service number etc is amazing.
Hmm ... I really can't agree that there are similarities between these two men ... and certainly there's nothing that borders on being "amazing". ;D
(The NZ service number is unique to HBL and it is distinctly different to the supposed A.I.F. number allocated to WHH. )
Just my personal view ... but I would be looking to do something other than "barking up this LUSCOMBE tree". ;D
Additional info for H.B. LUSCOMBE - (for elimination purposes) : This man was born at Ashburton, (South Island) NZ in June 1893. His parents, Roger Bond LUSCOMBE and Susan Jane PERRING (ex Devon) arrived in Canterbury in 1874.
They eventually married in NZ in 1904 and about 1912, returned to Devon, UK. HBL appears to have gone with them as he wed his 1st wife there in 1913 ? And although there was a divorce from wife # 1 in NZ in 1920, HBL managed to squeeze in another "marriage" beforehand, on 9 July 1918, Westminster (London) to Rosina Elizabeth BRABHAM using the name Henry Hingston LUSCOMBE (bachelor - aged 25 - Lance Cpl. NZED, residence: On Active Service, Father: Roger Bond Luscombe, farmer : ) ::) So Florence, his NZ bride of 1922, was actually wife # 3. The last living of his children with Florence, died just a matter of days ago in Auckland aged 89 (born c. 1928). But a daughter (buried with Florence) who died aged 11 in 1940, appears to have been the youngest. HBL, an apiarist, last appeared on NZ e/roll ( 1931 - Mid-Canterbury) with wife Florence, residing at Trevors Road, Ashburton. Prior - in 1928 they'd lived at the small settlement of Flemington (HBL a labourer) . [Source: Various NZ / UK records, newspaper articles, etc. ]
~ Lu
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Thank you for your reply Dundee.
I can ask if they are willing to purchase the 1931 marriage cert but they already know that I am stuck at this point so I'm just hoping that they will do so.
As for the details on the plaque, I assume that the second wife who is now deceased had organised the funeral and must have had some kind of proof. The only family member willing to be involved in these discussions is the youngest child and she was in her mid teens when her father died 50 years ago. She is willing though to purchase the cert for the second marriage (to her mother) though as that took place after they had already been together 20 years it may not provide the info we're looking for.
...... he fought for NZ but WITH Aust during WWI. Possibly during the Gallipoli campaign
Except that there is no NZ service record. The company which produced the cemetery plaque should have been aware of legislation forbidding the use of the Rising Sun emblem without written permission. Why would his plaque carry the AIF emblem instead of NZ?
Perhaps your friend is not aware of the depth of information on a NZ marriage cert....
Bride and Groom
When and where married
Name and surname of the parties
Ages
Rank or profession
Condition of parties
Bachelor or spinster (or as case may be)
If widow or widower date of death of former wife or husband
Birthplace
Residence: Present, Usual
Parents
Father's name and surname
Father's rank or profession
Mothers name and Maiden surname
Signatures
Bride and groom
Witnesses
Officiating minister (or Registrar)
https://bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/dataCollected/marriage
Debra :)
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Another marriage? My goodness he was a busy man.
It's because of the confusion that I had been discussing HBL off-forum just so as not to go off-track. It's looking like WHH might remain a mystery man unless his dau can gather additional information within her family. I hope she can talk them around, as being older they might have different recollections of family stories, what they had been told of his past and parents etc.
The similarities between these two men, time of disappearance of HBL, appearance of WHH, service number etc is amazing.
Hmm ... I really can't agree that there are similarities between these two men ... and certainly there's nothing that borders on being "amazing". ;D
(The NZ service number is unique to HBL and it is distinctly different to the supposed A.I.F. number allocated to WHH. )
Just my personal view ... but I would be looking to do something other than "barking up this LUSCOMBE tree". ;D
Additional info for H.B. LUSCOMBE - (for elimination purposes) : This man was born at Ashburton, (South Island) NZ in June 1893. His parents, Roger Bond LUSCOMBE and Susan Jane PERRING (ex Devon) arrived in Canterbury in 1874.
They eventually married in NZ in 1904 and about 1912, returned to Devon, UK. HBL appears to have gone with them as he wed his 1st wife there in 1913 ? And although there was a divorce from wife # 1 in NZ in 1920, HBL managed to squeeze in another "marriage" beforehand, on 9 July 1918, Westminster (London) to Rosina Elizabeth BRABHAM using the name Henry Hingston LUSCOMBE (bachelor - aged 25 - Lance Cpl. NZED, residence: On Active Service, Father: Roger Bond Luscombe, farmer : ) ::) So Florence, his NZ bride of 1922, was actually wife # 3. The last living of his children with Florence, died just a matter of days ago in Auckland aged 89 (born c. 1928). But a daughter (buried with Florence) who died aged 11 in 1940, appears to have been the youngest. HBL, an apiarist, last appeared on NZ e/roll ( 1931 - Mid-Canterbury) with wife Florence, residing at Trevors Road, Ashburton. Prior - in 1928 they'd lived at the small settlement of Flemington (HBL a labourer) . [Source: Various NZ / UK records, newspaper articles, etc. ]
~ Lu
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William Harcourt HENWOOD was undoubtedly the assumed persona of Hingston Bond LUSCOMBE (born 1893 in Canterbury, NZ). His behaviour throughout his life of serial bigamous marriages and abandoned families was entirely consistent.
My maternal grandmother was a LUSCOMBE and a first cousin to Hingston. Myself and five of my cousins (or their children) are all genetic matches (ranging between 10 and 85 cM) to a descendent of William Harcourt HENWOOD and his fourth wife. There is no other obvious genealogical or genetic explanation other than William HENWOOD was actually Hingston LUSCOMBE.
I have been researching the LUSCOMBE family for some years. Without these RootsChat postings there is no way that I could have ever have discovered what became of Hingston, after he disappeared so completely in 1930. The clue was his WWI army number on his grave stone. It was amazing that he was able to get away with what he did across 50 years, from 1918 to his death in 1968, without being apprehended.
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Hi I have just come across this thread while going through my DNA matches looking for William Harcourt Henwood. He comes up in one of my matches trees and to start with I could not find anything on him until I did a google search and found this. I have several DNA matches to the Luscombe family who went to New Zealand. I have traced most of them back to William Luscombe b abt 1772 and Dorothy Torring b abt 1780.
I am not sure how they are related to me at the moment. I do have Luscombe in my tree but I can not connect them. There is a possibility the link could go back to Agnes Hingston b abt 1697.