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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: johneowens on Tuesday 21 November 17 12:52 GMT (UK)

Title: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: johneowens on Tuesday 21 November 17 12:52 GMT (UK)
I wonder whether Garstonite or some other kind person can check a gravestone at St. Michael's, Garston for me. The image I've found on Ancestry is not clear. The inscription apparently reads:

"Headstone - Charles & Mary Ireland

"The burial place of Charles and May Ireland of Speke (actually Hale). Martha aged 10 months 1808 Edward aged 10 months 1814 William aged 10 months 1824 Also Mary died 7th June 1846 Aged 16 years and 10 months. (verse) Also Charles Ireland Also Mary Ireland".

Could some kind person who visits the graveyard take another pic, please?

Many thanks and best wishes

John
 
Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: garstonite on Wednesday 22 November 17 10:29 GMT (UK)
I will go and have a look John later - and have a pint as well ...lol - raining at the moment ,so I will see if it eases off..
Dicky Ireland was my dads Headmaster at Garston C of E School in 1930 - 35 - any relation ??
ADDED - if it is over 200 years old I presume it is Sandstone ?....may just be wear and tear of the headstone and not a bad photo ??

https://www.facebook.com/groups/stmichaelsgarston/about/
Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: johneowens on Wednesday 22 November 17 16:35 GMT (UK)
Many thanks - when it's dry, of course.

I'm only related by marriage: My gt grandfather's sister married Charles Ireland so don't know whether your Dickie is connected. Probably, somehow.

Yes, sandstone and 200 yo, and I don't know how old the photo is but whoever took it managed to read the inscriptions, either off the photo or in situ.

BTW, just noticed a typo in my original message. Should have been "The burial place of Charles and Mary Ireland of Speke ..."

Best

John
Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: garstonite on Wednesday 22 November 17 17:14 GMT (UK)
It's lashed down all day John - definitely go around noon tomorrow  :)
Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: johneowens on Wednesday 22 November 17 17:37 GMT (UK)
No problem - and if you see any other Irelands or Owens', and have the time, I would greatly appreciate photos of those too.

Many thanks, Garstonite.

Best

John
Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: garstonite on Thursday 23 November 17 07:40 GMT (UK)
Ireland and Owen families were - and still are big families in Garston /Speke/Hale ...I have many friends of both families ....so I presume there will be many graves of both families  :)
Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: johneowens on Thursday 23 November 17 10:02 GMT (UK)
Yes, I understand there are quite a few Irelands left in the Garston-Hale-Speke area but, to date, I have not found any contemporary Owens contacts in Garston, from my line (Owens, not Owen). I would welcome any contacts descended from John Owens (b. 1844), including Adams, Roberts, Carter, Ransom, and Davies.

I know you will do what you can, Garstonite - and again, many thanks.

Best wishes

John
Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: garstonite on Friday 24 November 17 08:45 GMT (UK)
Hiya John - VERY boggy after all the rain so I stuck to the path - figure 8 shape and just looked at what headstones I could read from the path - couldn't see the headstone you wanted a picture of or any Owens headstones - I did find these 2 though
..........................................................................................
Hannah Ireland died October 29th 1904 aged 27 years - in with her parents named Newick - so obviously Hannah Newick married an Ireland
.............................................................................
Joseph Toplis Ireland who fell asleep 27th January 18??
Emma Lucy Ireland Nov 9th 1892 aged 15 months
William Edward Ireland aged 5 months nov 15th 1896
Joseph Toplis Ireland died 1st feb  1908 aged - looks like 36
Margaret Ireland April 28th 1925 wife of Joseph aged - looks like 51 years
the lower the writing the more unreadable it becomes
it looks to me like 3 children of Joseph and Margaret died as babies and their parents joined them .
.....................................................................................
Anyway
if the weather is better / drier next week I will pop in again on Wednesday
 ;)
ADDED
just checked freebmd
Hannah Newick married William Ireland sep qtr 1898
Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: garstonite on Friday 24 November 17 08:58 GMT (UK)
Joseph Toplis Ireland was born in Garston 1851
Joseph Toplis Ireland - his son born in Garston 1885 

so I would say the 1908 death of Joseph Toplis Ireland Snr should read aged 56 - not 36
and Margaret died 1925 should probably read 81 and not 51
Margarets maiden name was Potter and they married in 1875 in Garston
ADDED
Got that wrong - the Joseph Toplis Ireland that died 1908 says b 1872 on death record - so what happened to Joseph Senior ?...pretty certain he is in with Margaret cos it says wife of the above - unless Joseph jnr also married a Margaret ??
I will let you sort that one out ....lol
Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: garstonite on Friday 24 November 17 09:22 GMT (UK)
I wonder whether Garstonite or some other kind person can check a gravestone at St. Michael's, Garston for me. The image I've found on Ancestry is not clear. The inscription apparently reads:

"Headstone - Charles & Mary Ireland

"The burial place of Charles and May Ireland of Speke (actually Hale). Martha aged 10 months 1808 Edward aged 10 months 1814 William aged 10 months 1824 Also Mary died 7th June 1846 Aged 16 years and 10 months. (verse) Also Charles Ireland Also Mary Ireland".

Could some kind person who visits the graveyard take another pic, please?

Many thanks and best wishes

John

this looks like the marriage - the Wyke family also still in Garston - had a telly shop until recently

Banns: 28 Apr 1806 St Mary, Hale, Lancashire, England
 Charles Ireland - (X), Bachelor, Hale in the parish Childwall
 Mary Wyke - (X), Spinster, Speke in the parish Childwall
     Witness: Thomas Berry; Robert Southern
     Married by Banns by: Saml. Norman Minister
     Register: Marriages 1799 - 1812, Page 16, Entry 40
     Source: LDS Film 2045907

Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: garstonite on Friday 24 November 17 09:25 GMT (UK)
You may find this interesting
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/merseyside-tales-history-hale-hall-3351510

Sir Gilbert Ireland had Hale Hall built in 1674

Charles and Mary had 7 children - he was a Fisherman and they lived in Oglet until at least 1832

family there in 1851 also the Wyke family
http://spekearchiveonline.co.uk/oglet_lane.htm
Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: johneowens on Friday 24 November 17 09:40 GMT (UK)
Many, many thanks, Garstonite. That's great - and thanks for your perseverance in boggy conditions. You're a star.

As you say, if you get the chance if it dries up ...

Best wishes

John

Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: garstonite on Friday 24 November 17 09:49 GMT (UK)
this is nice - Mary is still alive in 1861 living in a cottage in Oglet Lane with her son Adam and his wife and children - WITH A SERVANT ...so they had a bit of money ...not bad for a Fishermans wife
1861 census - Cottage ,Oglet Lane
Mary Ireland                Head    74                                    Speke, Lancs
 Adam Ireland               Head    29        Labourer          Speke, Lancs
 Mary Ireland                Wife     29                                     Roby, Lancs
 Edward Ireland            Son      4          Scholar             Speke, Lancs
 Mary Ellen Ireland     Dau      2          Scholar              Speke, Lancs
 James Ireland               Son      3m                                   Speke, Lancs
 Alice Leadbetter          Serv     15                                    Speke, Lancs

Adams baptism
Baptism: 18 Mar 1832 St Mary, Hale, Lancashire, England
 Adam Ireland - Son of Charles Ireland & Mary
     Abode: Speke
     Occupation: Fisherman
     Baptised by: Wm. Stewart
     Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1841, Page 129, Entry 1025
     Source: LDS Film 2045906

Oglet was a tiny village between Hale and Speke - slowly demolished and taken up by Speke Airport but Oglet Shore is still popular with local people
 
Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: johneowens on Friday 24 November 17 10:08 GMT (UK)
Again, many thanks, Garstonite. I shall pass this and your previous findings on to my very distant Ireland cousin in Canada.

Wondered where Oglet was in Hale/Speke. Thanks for the clarifications.

Best wishes

John
Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: garstonite on Friday 24 November 17 10:15 GMT (UK)
John - tell your Canadian contact to search through this site for Ireland family
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: emeltom on Friday 24 November 17 12:04 GMT (UK)
I used to work in Air Traffic Control at Liverpool Airport and used to drive along Oglet Lane on a daily basis. All the original cottages are long gone now although there are a couple near the Tower as well as Oglet Farm. There used to be a Salt Works on Oglet Shore.

Emeltom
Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: johneowens on Friday 24 November 17 12:19 GMT (UK)
Dear Emeltom

Thanks for this little nugget, about the salt works. Very useful as one of our Ireland antecedents, John Ireland b. 1822 gives his address in the 1881C as the Saltworks.

Keep them coming. There is no substitute for local knowledge. In the early 60's, I used to pass what became John Lennon airport on the way home from my Dad's shop in Chesterton Street.

Best

John
Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: johneowens on Friday 24 November 17 12:22 GMT (UK)
John - tell your Canadian contact to search through this site for Ireland family
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

Will do.

Thanks again

Best

John
Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: emeltom on Friday 24 November 17 12:50 GMT (UK)
http://www.roydenhistory.co.uk/mrlhp/local/salt/dungeon.htm

Mike Royden's site is very interesting - well worth a read

http://spekearchiveonline.co.uk

This may also be of interest. Apart from anything else it has the Censuses for Oglet Lane.

Emeltom
Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: johneowens on Friday 24 November 17 13:02 GMT (UK)
Thanks, Emeltom. I think I'll leave it to my Canadian Ireland cousin to work out where Margaret Ireland (who has the cottage http://spekearchiveonline.co.uk/Margaret%20Ireland.htm) fits in.

Best

John
Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: garstonite on Friday 01 December 17 08:42 GMT (UK)
Hiya John - just to let you know I haven't forgot - bad weather and decorating for Xmas - will go as soon as I am free
 :)
Title: Re: Garston, St. Michael's graveyard - Ireland
Post by: johneowens on Friday 01 December 17 11:11 GMT (UK)
That's great.

Many thanks. Look like the weather is set for a few days.

Best

John