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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Familysearch on Wednesday 22 November 17 16:15 GMT (UK)
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Some time ago, I posted a message about John Sandilands - Link here -
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=332810.msg2127413#msg2127413
I have found a John Sandilands on the 1939 Register living at 220 Arlington Road, St. Pancras, London. The date of birth (27 Feb 1880) is correct, so I am assuming that this is the right one. The record stated he was married, but he is the only occupant of the address.
Trying to move it a little further, I started looking for death records, but the only one I could find has the age at death as 71. (Unfortunately, the death is before the birth date was recorded on the death certificate/index)
I have received today a copy of the death certificate for this individual.
Under occupation there is an address of 38 Camden Road, St. Pancras, not the occupation, which might have been helpful. Date of death is 15 September 1960.
The description of the informant is: " F A Leverson, causing the body to be buried. 163 York Way, N7."
Have I found him? I can't be sure. Would appreciate your ideas/help on this. It is a family brick wall - that is, I don't think his brother and sisters ever knew what had happened to him. Would just so love to solve the mystery.
FS
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I have found a John Sandilands on the 1939 Register living at 220 Arlington Road, St. Pancras, London. The date of birth (27 Feb 1880) is correct, so I am assuming that this is the right one. The record stated he was married, but he is the only occupant of the address.
Have you seen the original page or are you working from a transcript
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You say he's the only occupant of the address in the 1939 entry you have found - but 220 Arlington Rd was/is a large hostel in Camden known as Arlington House:
http://www.ravishlondon.com/items/%28515%29.html
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I think the surname of the informant is quite likely actually Leverton, as 163 York Way is the address of one of the branches of the old established firm of funeral directors Leverton & Sons.
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Thank you for your replies.
I was using the system at my library - and can't remember if I was using the transcript only. There was a problem with viewing the actual document one of the days I was working there.
Interesting that it was a hostel. May suggest that there was a Mrs Sandilands, but elsewhere!
Wasn't sure if it is Leverson or Leverton. Seems logical that it is Leverton, if they were the local funeral directors.
FS
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Familysearch,
Have you been able to find an obit for him?
You could write to the local cemeteries and the funeral home(s) to ask if they have any info on file. Sometimes funeral home info can include date of birth, parents' names and spouse's name.
Regards,
Josephine
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I think the surname of the informant is quite likely actually Leverton, as 163 York Way is the address of one of the branches of the old established firm of funeral directors Leverton & Sons.
Various directories show Frank Arthur Leverton, Funeral Director/Undertaker at this address until the 1970's.
I rest my case ;D
(I have vivid memories of another member of this dynasty of funeral directors stopping all the seething traffic on Prince Albert Road by Regent's Park, with an imperious flourish of his cane, in order to let my father-in-law's funeral cortege onto the road from a side street ;D )
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Hi
H appears to be living at 36, Camden Road, Pancras (not 38) in the electoral rolls from around 1949, possibly before, up to1959.
He is in a household with surnames, variously through the years, Newton, Folkes, Burgess, Anley, Jameson and Woodward.
He may just be a lodger and the other names unconnected.
Cathy
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The death certificate is definitely 38, but I am working on the idea that the undertaker registered the death, so information may not be accurate. If this is my man, then the age at death is not right anyway.
I have not come across this situation before - how common was it for the undertaker to register the death?
So far, have not found an obituary, but there would not necessarily be one for a fairly ordinary man (?)
Reasoning on the 1939" I am confident that this is the right person (dob is correct) he has not moved far from there for subsequent electoral rolls. The area seems to have been redeveloped over the years, some of the houses now appear to be flats.
I do need to get back to the library to look at the original document for the 1939. Arlington House is an interesting property.
If anyone has any other ideas how I should continue my research I would be grateful. This man has evaded me for many years - and as I mentioned earlier, I don't know if his siblings ever knew what happened to him. (Raises the question, why did he end up so far away from his roots, when the others were in close contact with each other until they died?)
FS
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Deceased Online has a record for the 19 September 1960 burial of John Sandilands at St Pancras Cemetery. Downloads available are grave details (£1.50) and burial register scan (£2.00).
The grave includes 12 other burials. All evidence points towards this man not being in contact with his family, but for the minimal expense it's probably worth having a look at the register scan.
Added: I swim at the pool five mins up the road from this cemetery, so if you get the plot number I'm happy to check it out. Probably little to see if it's a communal plot, but you never know.
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He is on electoral roll at 220 Arlington Rd in 1947 but at 36 Camden Rd in 1948
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Deceased Online has a record for the 19 September 1960 burial of John Sandilands at St Pancras Cemetery. Downloads available are grave details (£1.50) and burial register scan (£2.00).
The grave includes 12 other burials. All evidence points towards this man not being in contact with his family, but for the minimal expense it's probably worth having a look at the register scan.
Added: I swim at the pool five mins up the road from this cemetery, so if you get the plot number I'm happy to check it out. Probably little to see if it's a communal plot, but you never know.
Thank you for your kind offer. You are a lot nearer than my sister in Finchley, so would be grateful for your input if convenient.
You should have received a reference from another Rootschatter who has looked up the grave reference,
Look forward to hearing from you.
FS
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He is on electoral roll at 220 Arlington Rd in 1947 but at 36 Camden Rd in 1948
This really narrows things down - thank you.
Presume no reference to a wife. I need to get to my local library to check the details on the pre war listing. Fairly sure he is down as married.
FS
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Worth exploring further (assuming the A in your John's names does stand for Andrew)
John Sandilands on electoral role 1914 as lodger in Lambeth
Marriage Lambeth Mar 1918 John A Sandilands to Mabel E Linthorn
A John Andrew Sandilands appears on electoral registers with Mabel Ethelinda Sandilands Lowth Rd Camberwell from 1920 - 23
John Andrew Sandilands in house of multiple occupation 25 Pindar St Shoreditch in 1928, no Mabel
Joan Sandilands born Wandsworth 1923 mothers maiden-name Linthorn died Surbiton 2014
Mabel Ethelinda Sandilands in Southwark 1924 and 1929 no John
Mabel E Sandilands and a Joan Sandilands in Putney 1945-1951
A Mabel E Sandilands dies in Hastings age 79 in 1963 - looks like this is another lady
Mabel E Sandilands dies Wandsworth 1952 age 66
If this is your John looks as if he split up from his wife
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I need to get to my local library to check the details on the pre war listing. Fairly sure he is down as married.
You can check that out using the free index search to the 1939 on FindMyPast. https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-records/1939-register
Using this shows that he was married.
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Yes, I suspect the initial A is for Andrew. I say "suspect" because that was not his given name, he is registered as "John Sandiland". His father was Andrew.
He does appear to have adopted a second name on the 1911.
Intrigued to know where you found the marriage record - I had (I thought!) looked at every John Sandilands including variations.
Gives me another line of search - thank you.
FS
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I need to get to my local library to check the details on the pre war listing. Fairly sure he is down as married.
You can check that out using the free index search to the 1939 on FindMyPast. https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-records/1939-register
Using this shows that he was married.
It's coming up as household locked. However, I do know I got further than this at the library. I was questioned whether I was working from the transcription, or the original document, and since there was a problem with the access to FindMyPast that day I couldn't be sure whether I had only looked at the transcription.
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I need to get to my local library to check the details on the pre war listing. Fairly sure he is down as married.
You can check that out using the free index search to the 1939 on FindMyPast. https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-records/1939-register
Using this shows that he was married.
It's coming up as household locked. However, I do know I got further than this at the library. I was questioned whether I was working from the transcription, or the original document, and since there was a problem with the access to FindMyPast that day I couldn't be sure whether I had only looked at the transcription.
I appreciate that it comes up with 'household locked' if you have no subscription.
But my point was that if you search for a 'single' John Sandilands at Arlington Road, using the link I gave, you get no hits.
If you search for a 'married' John Sandilands at Arlington Road you get one hit which you know is your man.
Therefore he must have been married.
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Hadn't tried that! Thanks
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Hadn't tried that! Thanks
Creative use of the free index search can yield some very useful results ;)
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Reporting back from visit to St Pancras Cemetery this lunchtime. Nothing of use, I'm afraid. The grave in question is in one of the 'wilderness' sections of the cemetery - actually a neighbouring section to one I've attempted to visit previously.
It's difficult verging on impossible to get into some of these sections. In the case of this particular one, you're faced with a six-foot-high wall of brambles. No sign of any monuments through the leaves and branches. Possibly the entire section is dedicated to communal plots.
Although plot numbers are given in the burial register entries for communally buried individuals, the cemetery office advises that no communal plot maps are available - they were either never created, or at least none have survived.
I don't know whether Levertons (the funeral directors) might still have any useful records... it's 'only' the 1960s, after all.
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Thanks, Rattus, for looking. Appreciate your help.
I am pursuing a marriage at the moment, waiting for a certificate. If this is our John, then it looks as if he may have left the midlands during WW1 and never went back to the area.
FS
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Let us know how you get on with the marriage certificate :)
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Will do.
If it is the right one, then it will link all the findings on this thread! And break down our family brick wall!
FS
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Will do.
If it is the right one, then it will link all the findings on this thread! And break down our family brick wall!
FS
Fingers crossed it is your John
Jan
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Reporting back, as promised. First, I must say a big thank you to everyone who has contributed to this search. We seem to have solved one of my brick walls, even if it has thrown up a few questions that will probably never be answered. It's two generations back from me, and I am, as far as I know, the oldest member of the family!
The marriage was in January 1918.gives his age as 37, which is correct.
He is using Andrew as a second name, which he did on the 1911 census.
Father's name is Andrew - which I knew, and the occupation of manufacturer is ok.(If it had specified what he manufactured, it would have nailed it!)
Interestingly, one of the witnesses is one of his cousins, who I already have on the tree, so that is another positive.
His residence at the time of marriage is 83 Lowth Road, Camberwell, which janan has already come up with from the electoral roll.
Occupation is given as staff sergt(?) in the Army. I have not been able to find any military documentation for him.
I have created a document, putting all the finds in date order - I may pursue the death of his daughter, but have not been able to find the reference to it. (2014?) There is a possible on the Find a Will site, so may just give that a try.
All in all, a very successful posting. I only looked him up on the 1939 as an afterthought. I had gone to the library to go through it for all the relatives I knew were still alive then, most of whom I met in my early years. I still have some to look up when I have the time.
Once again a big thank you to you all - one of these days I might try throwing my other brick wall in the mix. With information becoming more available, things are certainly coming to light that I never thought I would find!
Regards,
FS
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If he was still in the Army in 1920 his records will not be online, they are still with the MOD ;)
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That's brilliant :D
These are the details I found for his daughter's death, I assume MS is her title rather than initials.
MS Joan Sandilands 91 Born 1923 Died Surbiton on 14 Aug 1923
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Think that's a typo janan ;D - died 2014
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There is a will listed, so have sent for it. Shame - a relative we didn't know about. Wonder if they kept in touch with cousin who witnessed the marriage of her parents?
FS
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Think that's a typo janan ;D - died 2014
I wondered but just searched Smith 2008 to check and all males are Mr or other title women MS, Mrs or other
Jan :D
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There is a will listed, so have sent for it. Shame - a relative we didn't know about. Wonder if they kept in touch with cousin who witnessed the marriage of her parents?
FS
Yes it is a shame when you discover a relative too late. Let us know if the will gives any useful info :D
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Downloaded the will this morning - very quick service!
Unfortunately, none of the named beneficiaries mean anything to me. There are a few small cash legacies, and then personal/family things to three of them. The remainder of the estate, that is most of it, is for three charities. The house sold for £325,000 in 2015, so I guess the charities got around £100k each.
So, for the time being, I guess I shall draw a line under that one. It's not as if I knew her, or even if she had left inheritance to anyone that suggests extended family that I didn't know about.
Again, thanks to those who helped me find John. When I posted the original message, I had no idea that there would be so much to find out!
Regards
FS