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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Suffolk => Topic started by: CrichCarr on Thursday 23 November 17 23:09 GMT (UK)

Title: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: CrichCarr on Thursday 23 November 17 23:09 GMT (UK)
Hi,

I am looking for information about Lizzie CODLING, who in 1881 was a servant in a London house, was born around 1862, and whose place of birth was given as Suffolk.

Her story, or the part that I am aware of, is a little complicated. On the 1881 Census, she was a servant in the household of a Louis BENOIT. He was described as a Lodging House Keeper. Louis at the time of the 1881 Census was 59 and married to wife Isabella. Lizzie, in 1881, was 19.

It's impossible at this distance from the events to know all the facts surrounding the story, but I am convinced that 59-year-old Louis fathered a child by 19-year-old Lizzie, a son, whose birth was registered by Lizzie, as Louis CODLING. This registration was in the 4th Qtr of 1881 and took place in the Marylebone District of London.

There is quite a bit more about Louis CODLING that I know, for instance, he didn't retain the CODLING name, and he didn't stay with Lizzie. After 1881, the first we hear of him again is in on the 1891 Census, when he is in the household of a widow, one Charlotte NUTKINS. There, he is 9-years-old and goes by the name of Louis BENOIT, being described as a Lodger. On the 1901 Census, he is still with Charlotte and is listed as 'Harry' NUTKINS, Grandson. He gets married in December 1901 and is married as Louis BENOIT. However, in 1909 he changes his name to Harry NUTKINS, and that is how he remains. He died comparatively young, in 1915.

Back to Lizzie! Looking on FreeBMD, Ancestry and Findmypast, I cannot find an 1862 birth for a 'Lizzie' CODLING, in Suffolk. I have however been able to discover a Caroline Elizabeth CODLING, born 1862, in the District of Wangford, Suffolk. Is this likely to be the 'Lizzie' who was in London in 1881?

Lizzie is not on a London Census after 1881, at least I cannot find her on one. Due to the circumstances, I am of the opinion that she likely went back to Suffolk, without son Louis! So what happened to her?

I have come across a marriage of a Lizzie CODLING, to a Frederick DENNY in the District of Wangford during the 2nd Qtr of 1885.

There is also a marriage of Caroline Elizabeth CODLING to a Robert Owen B Davis, in the District of Maldon, Essex, during the 4th Qtr of 1895.

I am in Derbyshire and am unfamiliar with families in Suffolk, but I wondered whether anyone might like to cast their eyes over the above information and let me know if they have any knowledge which might clarify if either of the above two marriages, or maybe even both, might be the Lizzie CODLING who was in London.

Any other knowledge or insights would also be useful. I am trying to construct a family tree for a friend, but this one is proving a little difficult.

I do hope someone might be able to help.

Your hopefully,

Alan
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 23 November 17 23:23 GMT (UK)
Hi

When Louis married in 1901 - is a father's name shown on his marriage cert?

Have you identified Lizzie on the 1871 census - hopefully with her parents?

Have you tracked Charlotte Nutkins backwards to see if she had any connection to either Lizzie or a Codling family?

Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 24 November 17 00:16 GMT (UK)
Charlotte was nee Walker and married George Nutkins 1.1.1862 St Marylebone but the 1871 census shows a daughter Charlotte E born 1859 but Marylebone - not Suffolk
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: solidrock on Friday 24 November 17 04:17 GMT (UK)
There is an Elizabeth Codling b 1860 Lowestoft, Suffolk.  She is married to Samuel Codling.
Wangford comes under Lowestoft district.
Samuel Codling married Elizabeth Aldington, 1881 Wangford, Suffolk.

1881 census.
Elizabeth Aldington.      Beccles Road, Wangford.  age 21, single, Housekeeper.  Daughter of head of household. Born Lowestoft 1860.  Father William B A Aldington. Age 67. Born Great Yarmouth.
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: avm228 on Friday 24 November 17 07:57 GMT (UK)
Just a note on the 23 Dec 1901 Marylebone marriage of Louis Benoit to Maude Catherine Roy.

Louis' father is said to be Louis Benoit (deceased), butler.  Witnesses were William Arthur Nutkins and Hettie Roy.

The parish register is annotated with a correction to the bridegroom's name made on 3 Feb 1909:

'Col 2 for "Louis Benoit" read "Louis Benoit otherwise Codling or Nutkins".' 

The correction was made 'in the presence of H Nutkins and Maude Catherine Nutkins the parties married'.
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: avm228 on Friday 24 November 17 08:10 GMT (UK)
Caroline Elizabeth Codling (who married Robert Owen Base Davis in 1881) is not your 'Lizzie', because she appears separately in 1881 in Suffolk with her mother, albeit with her age significantly understated as '14'.  She was a daughter of Henry Godbold Codling and his wife Esther.  She is with them in Kelsale in 1871, aged 9.
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: solidrock on Friday 24 November 17 08:25 GMT (UK)
Samuel and Elizabeth Codling are living in  Broad Street, Bungay in 1891 with 4 children.

in 1901 living in Boyscott Lane, Bungay.
in 1911 still in Bungay.

All  Parish of St Mary Bungay. Registration District, Wangford
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: avm228 on Friday 24 November 17 08:26 GMT (UK)
Trying to follow up the 1885 marriage of Frederick Denny and Lizzie Codling.

Birth registrations:

Dec qtr 1885 Clara Emily Denny mmn Codling, Wangford (died same quarter)
Dec qtr 1886 Charles Denny mmn Codling, Wangford
Jun qtr 1889 Laura May Denny mmn Codling, Wangford
Jun qtr 1891 Frederick George Denny mmn Codling, Depwade
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: avm228 on Friday 24 November 17 08:36 GMT (UK)
Trying to follow up the 1885 marriage of Frederick Denny and Lizzie Codling.

Birth registrations:

Dec qtr 1885 Clara Emily Denny mmn Codling, Wangford (died same quarter)
Dec qtr 1886 Charles Denny mmn Codling, Wangford
Jun qtr 1889 Laura May Denny mmn Codling, Wangford
Jun qtr 1891 Frederick George Denny mmn Codling, Depwade

Censuses for this family after the marriage show that Frederick's wife 'Elizabeth' was enumerated as born in Shorncliffe, Kent abt 1868.  This makes her too young to be your "Lizzie", and indeed Elizabeth Codling can be separately accounted for in 1881, aged 13 with her parents Charles and Rachel in Bungay.

Elizabeth's birthplace of Sandgate, Kent per the 1881 leads to her birth registration as Elizabeth Codling mmn Norman, Dec qtr 1867 Elham.
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: CrichCarr on Friday 24 November 17 10:01 GMT (UK)
Hello all,

I made my post late last night, so am just picking up your various responses, for which I am deeply grateful. I acknowledge, with gratitude, your collective findings thus far.

1: To answer your questions CaroleW,  it was seeing Louis's father's name on the December 1901 Marriage Register, as avm228 has also picked up, where he was described as 'Deceased' that convinced me that he was the father of Lizzie's son, Louis CODLING. The older Louis died in the 1st Qtr of 1901.

2: No, I haven't yet identified Lizzie on the 1871 Census, I'm still looking. It's more than likely of course, that her birth name was Elizabeth and not Lizzie.

3: In researching Charlotte NUTKINS (nee WALKER) I have not found any previous association with any members of the CODLING family. However, The 1881 BENOIT household and the 1881 NUTKINS household were both in the Marylebone District of London, so maybe Charlotte NUTKINS somehow became aware of the situation, and took Lizzie's son in; young' Louis, at a very early age.

-- avm228: Well, you seem to have torpedoed the two marriages I found, so the search for Lizzie CODLING goes on.

-- solidrock: It would seem unlikely that the Elizabeth ALDINGTON you found on the 1881 Census in Wangford could be the same Lizzie, as Lizzie CODLING was enumerated on the 1881 Census, aged 19 and living in the Marylebone District of London at the time.

To repeat, I am so appreciative of the contributions you have all made thus far, so, although Lizzie CODLING still continues to be elusive, I do hope that eventually she can be found. Whatever she was like, London must have been a difficult place for a young 19-year-old girl in 1881.

Just before I press 'Post' on this reply, maybe it was finding the DENNY wedding in 1885 that made me think of Lizzie coming from Wangford. Now that avm228 has effectively taken that out of the picture, perhaps it was another part of Suffolk that Lizzie came from.

We press on....

Alan
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: CrichCarr on Friday 24 November 17 12:56 GMT (UK)
It's me again,

The only Lizzie CODLING found in a FreeBMD search of Birth/Marriages/Deaths in Suffolk, with the date range of 1861 - 1950, is the Lizzie CODLING/Frederick Denny marriage, in 1885. So, it is almost certain that her first name was something other than Lizzie. Unless someone comes up with anything different.

The only Elizabeth CODLING found in a FreeBMD search across a Births setting for Suffolk, with a date range of 1860 - 1950, is an Elizabeth CODLING born in the District of Bury St. Edmunds, with that birth being registered in 1874. So do these top two results suggest that her actual first name was neither Lizzie nor Elizabeth?

The only females with a CODLING surname found in a FreeBMD search across a Births setting for Suffolk, with a date range of 1860 - 1862 are the following:

Emma Charlotte CODLING - Birth Registered in the Sep Qtr of 1860, in the Wangford District.

Maria Jane CODLING - Birth Registered in the Sep Qtr of 1861, in the Risbridge District.

Caroline Elizabeth CODLING - Birth Registered in the Mar Qtr of 1862, in the Wangford District.

So it's scratching heads time again, as none of the above seem to 'fit' dear Lizzie.

Alan



Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: avm228 on Friday 24 November 17 13:22 GMT (UK)
I had a look in the 1871 census for anyone with surname Codling born 1861 +/- 1 to see what possibilities there were, whether in Suffolk or not.

There are two 11-yr-olds named Elizabeth Codling in Norfolk in 1871 who I thought were worth eliminating.  Fortunately or unfortunately (!) both can be easily eliminated, as they were still with their parents (in Hindolveston and Litcham respectively) in 1881.

Sorry - nothing positive but it's always worth ruling out the red herrings at least.
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: solidrock on Friday 24 November 17 23:38 GMT (UK)
Hi CrichCarr,
How do you know that "Lizzie" was born Codling? I'm still convinced that she is Elizabeth ALDINGTON, all the dates and places you gave add up, don't right her off just yet.
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 24 November 17 23:43 GMT (UK)
Hi Alan

Failure to register a birth only became a fineable offence in 1874/75 so her birth may not have been registered
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: CrichCarr on Saturday 25 November 17 08:31 GMT (UK)
Hi Alan

Failure to register a birth only became a fineable offence in 1874/75 so her birth may not have been registered

Thanks for that piece of very useful information. If I ever knew that I had forgotten it.

Regards,

Alan
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: CrichCarr on Saturday 25 November 17 08:40 GMT (UK)
Hi CrichCarr,
How do you know that "Lizzie" was born Codling? I'm still convinced that she is Elizabeth ALDINGTON, all the dates and places you gave add up, don't right her off just yet.

Hi solidrock,

I have just done a wildcard search on FreeBMD for a Lizzie born in Suffolk during 1861/1862. The search has returned 9 birth registrations. During the day I will try to find each one on the 1881 Census, that way I can rule them in or out, as 'my' Lizzie could not have been in two places at the same time.

Using the same logic, that is how I ruled out Elizabeth Aldington, as she could not have been on the 1881 Census in Suffolk, as you pointed out, and on the 1881 Census for the Parish of Marylebone, in London at the same time. At least that is how it seems to me.

Thank you all the same for your continued interest, much appreciated.

Alan
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 25 November 17 10:21 GMT (UK)
Alan, from your list of 9 Lizzies you can immediately eliminate Lizzie Ann Pretty born Mar qtr 1862 Bosmere as she died in the same quarter as her birth.
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: LizzieL on Saturday 25 November 17 10:29 GMT (UK)
Has anyone looked at the Ann Elizabeth Codling birth reg Q4 1861 in Norwich (freeBMD has surname as Codlin). Mother's mn Sheppard. Parents Robert and Ann. I can find family in 1861 (minus Ann Elizabeth because she wasn't born till a few months later).

Piece number 1211 Folio 38 Page number 31
Robert is a fishmonger. youngest daughter Maria is 10/12 i.e 10 months not 10 years as on some transcriptions. Can't find family in 1871, can find some children in 1881 but not parents.

Other thoughts: Lizzie could be abbreviation for Isabella. Lizzie could have a different birth surname and later acquired a stepfather's surname.
Information on 1881 census is as only as good as the householder knows and may have got age or place of birth wrong. I have many cases for servants / lodgers / boarders where the given place of birth was where they were last living not necessarily correct pob.
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: Dyingout on Saturday 25 November 17 11:08 GMT (UK)
I am convinced that 59-year-old Louis fathered a child by 19-year-old Lizzie, a son, whose birth was registered by Lizzie, as Louis CODLING. This registration was in the 4th Qtr of 1881 and took place in the Marylebone District of London.

Are you convinced or do you have the birth certificate of Louis?
i think this could be the clue to all of this.
Servants were often given Nicknames not their original name and as it's the older Louis giving details on the census he just thought of her as Lizzie.
The birth certificate should give you her real name.
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 25 November 17 11:11 GMT (UK)
Has anyone looked at the Ann Elizabeth Codling birth reg Q4 1861 in Norwich (freeBMD has surname as Codlin). Mother's mn Sheppard. Parents Robert and Ann. I can find family in 1861 (minus Ann Elizabeth because she wasn't born till a few months later).

Piece number 1211 Folio 38 Page number 31
Robert is a fishmonger. youngest daughter Maria is 10/12 i.e 10 months not 10 years as on some transcriptions. Can't find family in 1871, can find some children in 1881 but not parents.

I think Ann Elizabeth Codling married William Simms Jefferson in Scarborough, 20 Aug 1883.

Suggested 1871 for her as Elizabeth Codling, 9 b Norwich, in Beverley (Robert having had a job change to spring fitter): RG10/4769/67/20.  Robert's wife Ann may have died in Norwich in 1865; his remarriage to Sarah Ann Porrett was 1868 Norwich.

Importantly I have not traced this Elizabeth in 1881 so she could still be "Lizzie", a decent fit other than the Norfolk/Suffolk thing (but that in itself may be understandable if she moved away from her birthplace at an early age, or her employer in 1881 made an error in completing the return).
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: LizzieL on Saturday 25 November 17 11:38 GMT (UK)
Robert's in Beverley in 1881 as a fishmonger again
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: LizzieL on Saturday 25 November 17 11:40 GMT (UK)
Robert was a Smith on his marriage to Ann Sheppard - I mean occupation not different surname. So he could be quite versatile.
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: LizzieL on Saturday 25 November 17 11:44 GMT (UK)
daughter Maria(h) is a servant in Beverley in 1871.
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: LizzieL on Saturday 25 November 17 11:49 GMT (UK)
other daughter Sarah Ann is a boarder in Scarborough in 1881. But did Ann Elizabeth aka Elizabeth become Lizzie, go to London, have an illegitimate child, leave him in London with Charlotte Nutkins, go to Scarborough where she had a sister and marry there in 1883.
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 25 November 17 12:30 GMT (UK)
William Simms Jefferson and Ann Elizabeth emigrated to the US a few months after their 1883 marriage, arriving in New York on 28 March 1884, and eventually settled in Massachusetts.  They had three children, Charles Edward (1884), Mamie (1887; died in infancy) and Alice (1894).

In US documents she used the following names:

1884: Elizabeth Jefferson (immigration)
1900: Ann E. Jefferson (census)
1910: Elizabeth Jefferson (census)
1920: Elizabeth A. Jefferson (census)
1930: Ann E. Jefferson (census)

It looks quite possible that she was mostly known as Elizabeth, rather than Ann, during her life.  She was buried as Ann E. Jefferson in 1937: www.findagrave.com/memorial/61908498
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: LizzieL on Saturday 25 November 17 14:05 GMT (UK)
Just a note on the 23 Dec 1901 Marylebone marriage of Louis Benoit to Maude Catherine Roy.

Louis' father is said to be Louis Benoit (deceased), butler.  Witnesses were William Arthur Nutkins and Hettie Roy.

The parish register is annotated with a correction to the bridegroom's name made on 3 Feb 1909:

'Col 2 for "Louis Benoit" read "Louis Benoit otherwise Codling or Nutkins".' 

The correction was made 'in the presence of H Nutkins and Maude Catherine Nutkins the parties married'.

Two of their children - Gladys Maud (1908) and Harold John (1904) were registered as Benoit but later additions made to birth index with both surnames Codling and Nutkins. The additions have an A on the end, for Harold the number is the same as original reference, for Gladys it is slightly different. A later child Elsie Blanche (1910) is only registered as Nutkins. This seems to correspond with deciding to make name change official around 1909
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: CrichCarr on Saturday 25 November 17 14:13 GMT (UK)
I am convinced that 59-year-old Louis fathered a child by 19-year-old Lizzie, a son, whose birth was registered by Lizzie, as Louis CODLING. This registration was in the 4th Qtr of 1881 and took place in the Marylebone District of London.

Are you convinced or do you have the birth certificate of Louis?

I don't have the birth certificate, but maybe that might have to be done.

What convinced me that the older Louis was the father, as mentioned further back in the thread, is that on the younger Louis's marriage registration document in 1901, he gives his father as Louis Benoit (Deceased). The older Louis died in the 1st Qtr of 1901, the marriage took place in the 4th Qtr of the same year.

I will have to give serious thought to getting the certificate if I can't make progress.

Regards,

Alan
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 25 November 17 14:17 GMT (UK)
Are you aware that you can currently (under a pilot scheme) get uncertified pdf copies of birth and death records for 6 each from the GRO online?  www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

Cheaper than the 9.25 for a certificate - it will provide exactly the same information, and certification isn't necessary for family history purposes.
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: CrichCarr on Saturday 25 November 17 14:38 GMT (UK)
Two of their children - Gladys Maud (1908) and Harold John (1904) were registered as Benoit but later additions made to birth index with both surnames Codling and Nutkins. The additions have an A on the end, for Harold, the number is the same as the original reference, for Gladys it is slightly different. A later child Elsie Blanche (1910) is only registered as Nutkins. This seems to correspond with deciding to make name change official around 1909

As far as I am aware, the first three children were all registered as BENOIT, it was only after the name change, as you have indicated, that the final two children were registered from birth as NUTKINS. The children were:

Henry Louis BENOIT (1902-1903)

Harold John BENOIT (1904-1988)

Gladys Maude BENOIT (1908-1951)

Children born after the name-change in 1909 were given the name NUTKINS from birth, namely:

Elsie Blanche NUTKINS (1910-1943)

Stanley Frederick NUTKINS (1912-1992)

Regards,

Alan

Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: CrichCarr on Saturday 25 November 17 14:40 GMT (UK)
Are you aware that you can currently (under a pilot scheme) get uncertified pdf copies of birth and death records for 6 each from the GRO online?  www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

Cheaper than the 9.25 for a certificate - it will provide exactly the same information, and certification isn't necessary for family history purposes.

Very interesting! I will look into that I think. Many thanks for the prompt!

Alan
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: CrichCarr on Saturday 25 November 17 14:53 GMT (UK)
Alan, from your list of 9 Lizzies you can immediately eliminate Lizzie Ann Pretty born Mar qtr 1862 Bosmere as she died in the same quarter as her birth.

9 is now down to 2. The ones remaining under investigation are:

Lizzie BRIGHT, whose birth was registered in Newmarket District, Sept Qtr 1862

Lizzie BASSET, whose birth was registered in Newmarket District, March Qtr 1861

Going out now will check these later.

Alan
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 25 November 17 15:27 GMT (UK)

Lizzie BASSET, whose birth was registered in Newmarket District, March Qtr 1861

Alan, should her surname be BARRETT ? - this is the only Lizzie I can see registered in Newmarket

BARRETT, LIZZIE   mmn    SMITH     
1861  M Quarter in NEWMARKET  Volume 03B  Page 510   

this looks to be Lizzie on 1881 census

Lizzie Barrett age 20 born Newmarket occ housemaid
Head of household R ?yndham Rushbrooke Esq. age 22 Private Gentleman
Address  The Hall, Rushbrooke
RG11; Piece: 1837; Folio: 79; Page: 5

and with her parents on 1861c  RG 9; Piece: 1031; Folio: 121; Page: 18

Edward C Barrett   32 London occ Attorneys General Clerk
Sarah Barrett           29 Huntingdon
Jane Barrett           4
Edward C Barrett   3
Caroline Barrett         1
Lizzie Barrett           3 mths Newmarket
Alice Palmer   19 House servant

1856 marriage entry Huntingdon Edward Charles Barrett female name on same page Sarah Smith


Lizzie BRIGHT, whose birth was registered in Newmarket District, Sept Qtr 1862


Lizzie BRIGHT -    mother's maiden name left blank on GRO Indexes    
1862  S Quarter in NEWMARKET  Volume 03B  Page 491   


Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 25 November 17 17:43 GMT (UK)
I've just found this baptism only posting due to their first names, place & year of birth - have not yet checked for them on any censuses

Louis COTTON born 2nd Nov 1881
Baptism 23 Nov 1881 St Marylebone, Westminster, England
Mother:   Elizabeth COTTON abode workhouse
from London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1916

Have looked for a corresponding birth entry on FreeBMD & GRO Indexes for Dec qtr.1881 Marylebone but I can't see one for this surname  ???

The only one that seems to correspond is the one you have mentioned  :-\

Louis CODLING     -  (mmn left blank)   
1881  D Quarter in ST. MARYLEBONE Volume 01A  Page 559

Quote
I am convinced that 59-year-old Louis fathered a child by 19-year-old Lizzie, a son, whose birth was registered by Lizzie, as Louis CODLING.
This registration was in the 4th Qtr of 1881 and took place in the Marylebone District of London.

On the 1881 census you mention for Lizzie with Louis Benoit & wife Isabella is also their son Louis aged 16 occ city clerk - Is it possible that he fathered Lizzie's child :-\

Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: CrichCarr on Saturday 25 November 17 21:10 GMT (UK)
Ladyhawk

1: Typo by me!! I had meant to type Lizzie BARRETT. Looks like you found her in the 1881 Census! So out of my 9, I am now left with one to find, namely, Lizzie BRIGHT.

2: A response to your other message - It couldn't have been Louis Snr's own son, Louis BENOIT (born 1865) who was the father, as he didn't die until 1933, in Portsmouth. On the Louis CODLING/BENOIT marriage certificate in 1901, he declared his father as 'Deceased'! Louis Snr died in the first Qtr of that year.

avm228 & Dyingout

As per your kind prompting and advice, I have just ordered the online PDF copy of Louis CODLING's  Birth Registration from the GRO. The estimated availability date is 1st December. So, by next Friday ....... oh the waiting!!

Thanks to all,

Alan
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: CrichCarr on Thursday 30 November 17 13:06 GMT (UK)
Greetings all (once again),

Well, I now have the pdf copy of Louis CODLING's Birth Certificate. It confirms the following:

Birth Date: 2nd November 1881

Place: Marylebone Workhouse

Name: Louis

Name and Surname of Father: None was given

Name and Maiden Name of Mother: Elizabeth Codling (Servant)

Signature, Description & Residence of Informant:
E Codling (Mother)
15 Victoria Place
Salisbury Street
Marylebone

When Registered: 11th November 1881

Registrar: Henry G Times

I'm slightly disappointed that no father's name is given, but having said that I'm reasonably confident that Louis BENOIT Snr was the father, given the declaration given by Louis CODLING on his marriage certificate, in which he stated that his father was Louis BENOIT (Deceased), and as has been mentioned a number of times, Louis Snr died in the 1st Qtr of 1901, the same year as Louis Jnr's marriage.

The certificate confirms that Lizzie's given name was actually Elizabeth, which I guess is helpful in trying to look for her elsewhere, assuming of course that she didn't stay in the Workhouse.

What is quite interesting, and it does solve a question, is that the residence that Lizzie gave after the birth was 15 Victoria Place. This is the address frequently quoted on the London Electoral Registers as the residence of Charlotte NUTKINS. I know that the London street names have changed over the years, some being bombed out of existence during the blitz, but intriguingly the 1881 Census, the same year as Louis CODLING's birth, seems to suggest that Charlotte NUTKINS was living in 23 Hunstworth Terrace. This address is part of a series of properties that the Census describes as 'Model Buildings'. You have to go backwards and forwards in the Census to see where the numbers change, 22 to 23 to 24 etc.... I have also seen where Victoria Place is just off Salisbury Street. Modern-day Salisbury Street, however, although still in Marylebone, is a little distance removed from where I believe Huntsworth Terrace to have been. So that's another mystery to solve!

The fact that Lizzie (Elizabeth) gave her residence as Victoria Place does, I feel, explain how baby Louis Codling came to be in the NUTKINS household so early in his young life. It perhaps is likely that Lizzie, as a single mum, chose to leave him with friends in order to give him the best chance in life. I do feel sorry for Lizzie, and it does increase my determination to try and find out what happened to her.

So, I press on, armed with this new and fascinating information.

I thought that those of you who have followed this thread and were so kind to help would like to know what the Birth Certificate actually said.

Best wishes,

Alan



Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: LizzieL on Thursday 30 November 17 14:53 GMT (UK)
old map of the area here

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18&lat=51.5240&lon=-0.1716&layers=168&b=1

Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 30 November 17 20:25 GMT (UK)

Well, I now have the pdf copy of Louis CODLING's Birth Certificate. It confirms the following:

Birth Date: 2nd November 1881

Place: Marylebone Workhouse

Name: Louis

Name and Surname of Father: None was given

Name and Maiden Name of Mother: Elizabeth Codling (Servant)

Signature, Description & Residence of Informant:
E Codling (Mother)
15 Victoria Place
Salisbury Street
Marylebone

When Registered: 11th November 1881

Registrar: Henry G Times

The certificate confirms that Lizzie's given name was actually Elizabeth, which I guess is helpful in trying to look for her elsewhere, assuming of course that she didn't stay in the Workhouse.

I thought that those of you who have followed this thread and were so kind to help would like to know what the Birth Certificate actually said


Thank you for giving us an update, so the baptism record I posted appears to be the correct Louis even though his surname was entered as Cotton on his baptism record  - edit although surname might read COLTON


I've just found this baptism only posting due to their first names, place & year of birth - have not yet checked for them on any censuses

Louis COTTON born 2nd Nov 1881
Baptism 23 Nov 1881 St Marylebone, Westminster, England
Mother:   Elizabeth COTTON abode workhouse
from London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1916

Have looked for a corresponding birth entry on FreeBMD & GRO Indexes for
 Dec qtr.1881 Marylebone but I can't see one for this surname  ???

The only one that seems to correspond is the one you have mentioned  :-\

Louis CODLING     -  (mmn left blank)   
1881  D Quarter in ST. MARYLEBONE Volume 01A  Page 559


Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 01 December 17 09:50 GMT (UK)

As far as I am aware, the first three children were all registered as BENOIT, it was only after the name change, as you have indicated, that the final two children were registered from birth as NUTKINS. The children were:

Henry Louis BENOIT (1902-1903)

Harold John BENOIT (1904-1988)

Gladys Maude BENOIT (1908-1951)

Children born after the name-change in 1909 were given the name NUTKINS from birth, namely:

Elsie Blanche NUTKINS (1910-1943)

Stanley Frederick NUTKINS (1912-1992)


Not sure if you have this info. so posting just in case......

 9 Mar 1902 St Mary Bryanston Sq Westminster
Henry Louis Benoit born 18 January 1902
Parents Louis, glass cutter & Maud Catherine
abode 76 Seymour Place

7th Dec 1904 St Marylebone St Matthew, Westminster
Harold John Benoit, born 24th Oct 1904
parents Harry Lewis, glass cutter & Maud Catherine
abode 44 Linhope St

17 May 1908 St Matthew, St Marylebone Westminster
Gladys Maude Benoit born 3rd April
 parents Louis, caretaker & Maude Catharina
abode 44 Linhope Street

surname transcribed as Nuttings

4th Sept 1910 St Matthew, St Marylebone
Elsie Blanche Nutkins born 6 Aug 1910
Parents Harry, school keeper & Catherine Maude
abode 44 Linhope St Dorcet Sq

didn't spot a baptism for Stanley Frederick Nutkins
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: jonw65 on Friday 01 December 17 18:26 GMT (UK)
Marylebone workhouse creed register has
admitted 28 Oct 1881
Elizabeth Codling
age 19
admitted from 15 Victoria Place
sent to - Lying in
religious creed - Church
informant - ditto (Himself)

and
Louis Codling
born 2 Nov 1881
Lying in
religious creed - Church
informant - mother

Both discharged 14 Dec 1881

Sadly Elizabeth does not seem to feature in the exams book.
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: CrichCarr on Friday 01 December 17 23:18 GMT (UK)
Not sure if you have this info. so posting just in case......

didn't spot a baptism for Stanley Frederick Nutkins

Hello once again,

Thanks again for your interest in following this up. As it happens I did already have most of the additional detail you gave, but, like you, I still haven't found a baptism for Stanley Frederick NUTKINS.

Best wishes,

Alan
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: LizzieL on Saturday 02 December 17 09:07 GMT (UK)
Not sure if you have this info. so posting just in case......

didn't spot a baptism for Stanley Frederick Nutkins

Hello once again,

Thanks again for your interest in following this up. As it happens I did already have most of the additional detail you gave, but, like you, I still haven't found a baptism for Stanley Frederick NUTKINS.

Best wishes,

Alan
Ancestry has two pages missing from St Matthew, Marylebone baptism records - pages 82 and 83 which would be between 29 Dec 1912 and 10 Mar 1913

added
These pages wouldn't be a double sided leaf lost from the book, because p82 would be on the back of p 81 and p83 would be on the front side of p 84. Lokk like two pages turned when the document was scanned
Title: Re: On the trail of Lizzie CODLING, probably from Wangford District
Post by: CrichCarr on Saturday 02 December 17 14:54 GMT (UK)
Ancestry has two pages missing from St Matthew, Marylebone baptism records - pages 82 and 83 which would be between 29 Dec 1912 and 10 Mar 1913

added
These pages wouldn't be a double sided leaf lost from the book because p82 would be on the back of p 81 and p83 would be on the front side of p 84. Look like two pages turned when the document was scanned

I see that the London Metropolitan Archives holds the Baptismal Registers for St Matthews Church, in Marylebone. Sadly they are not available directly from the LMA site. I'm in Derbyshire, so maybe one day.................

Is what you found on Ancestry? Thanks for trying though!

Best wishes,

Alan