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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: sleckie on Tuesday 28 November 17 04:34 GMT (UK)
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I have a 2nd Great Grandmother that I have found in the 1851 Scottish Census listed as Mary Baiddey Taylor. Does Baiddey mean 'baby' as she was only 5 months old at the time. I cannot find her birth record from searching on the Scotlands People website. Although her surname is Taylor on the census I know that her mother's husband William Taylor died in February 1849 so he cannot be the father. Any other clues for searching her birth record would be appreciated.
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What name does she marry or die under, and does her death certificate give any more clues?
Just for information, she was born in Paisley, Renfrewshire on the 1851 census.
Have you looked on the actual census to see what the word looks like?
Have you found her in 1861?
Do the whole family emigrate - as you posted on here in the middle of the Scottish night?
Statutory registration of births only started in 1855 in Scotland.
What was his Mother's maiden name?
Sorry about all the questions, but we are here to help.
Belated Welcome.
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On the 1841 census for the family, there appears to be another Mary, age 1, so did that Mary also die, or do I have the wrong family?
1841
living in Neilston, Renfrewshire at West Arthurlie
William Taylor 25 salesman
Helen Taylor 25
Marion Taylor 3
Mary Taylor 1
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Hello Chempat, sorry I live in Australia hence the time of the posts. After more investigation I have realised that the William Taylor I mentioned who died in 1849 is not correct. I downloaded a copy of his will and his wife is Mary, not Helen, so different family.
Regarding my 2nd Great Grandmother, I have a copy of her Death Certificate and her name is listed as Mary Taylor Smith and that she had been in the Colony of NSW for 50 years. This makes sense as she was listed on the 1861 Census aged 10, and does not appear on the 1871 Census. She died on 6th February 1918 aged 67, so she came to Australia in 1867/68 when she was approximately 17. I have been unable to determine how she arrived, i.e. as a free settler or convict. She married David Smith and they had 3 boys, one of whom is my Grandfather. David was born in Australia. On her Marriage Certificate her name is Mary Taylor Smith, Spinster. No information about her Mother or Father is given, just her occupation of domestic duties.
The family you mention in the 1841 Census may be the same, although Helen Taylor is listed as 25, and in the 1851 Census she is 38 so a difference of 3 years, which could be OK as her birth date is given as Approx 1813. There could have been two children named Mary with the first one dying as an infant. I have other relatives in my tree who have had children die, only to name a later sibling with the same name, can be confusing.
I have a copy of the 1851 Census, but it is hard to read some of the words. I got the word Baiddey from the Ancestry website search on the census and it must have been transcribed as that. Helen is listed as Head of the House up until the 1881 Census.
Thank you so much for your reply. I will keep digging but would appreciate any help.
Kind Regards
Susan Leckie (nee Smith)
PS Just as a bit of background, my father-in-law is Scottish and also lived in Paisley, small world isn't it. :)
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Do you think you could scan a little of that census to show the word Baiddey and some of the surrounding words for comparison, so we can all have a guess as to what it is?
On the 1841 census the adults' ages have been 'rounded down' to the nearest 5 years, so age 28 would be recorded as 25.
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Hello again, I have attached the page from the 1851 Census. Mary is the last entry on the page. I have been looking at Scotlands People which is a great site and have found a marriage certificate and a proclamation for Helen Taylor and she did marry a William Taylor. Her maiden name was Lochhead.
Thanks again
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That could be Brashly or some other letter combination variation - suggest you put that on the Handwriting Deciphering board for their interpretation.
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Ok shall do. Thank you chempat for your help. By the way, what country do you live in?
Susan
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I am in England - but I do have a Scottish son-in-law (about 30 miles from Paisley).
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Wondering if the name could be Barkly/Barkley?
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hi and welcome
Your female ancestor was not transported as a convict as female convictism ceased early 1850s. WA received only males. Only WA received convicts in the 1860s. Was your lass married in NSW if so perhaps the NSW BDM has only a summary registration not reconciled to church registers. If so there are ways NSW BDM recommens for family history buffs to check further.
JM
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The free index on Scotlandspeople has her transcribed as Mary Backly. Freecen has Mary Barchly. I think Barclay is a possibility.
Isobel
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.....
Regarding my 2nd Great Grandmother, I have a copy of her Death Certificate and her name is listed as Mary Taylor Smith and that she had been in the Colony of NSW for 50 years. This makes sense as she was listed on the 1861 Census aged 10, and does not appear on the 1871 Census. She died on 6th February 1918 aged 67, so she came to Australia in 1867/68 when she was approximately 17. I have been unable to determine how she arrived, i.e. as a free settler or convict. She married David Smith and they had 3 boys, one of whom is my Grandfather. David was born in Australia. On her Marriage Certificate her name is Mary Taylor Smith, Spinster. No information about her Mother or Father is given, just her occupation of domestic duties. .....
Hi there,
When and where did Mary TAYLOR marry David SMITH? As I mentioned in my earlier post, if in New South Wales, it is possible that the NSW BDM only has summary information, rather than the full details the bride and the groom supplied to the clergy, which included their own places of birth, ages, occupations, their parents' details (name, nee name, dad's occupation) etc. Here's a thread I did up some time ago now, to help with finding the elusive details on many NSW BDM marriage registrations covering 1856-1895. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html
Is the following newspaper cutting for your Mary? I notice the cutting has her given names as May Taylor but both NSW BDM death index (REF #3939) and the cemetery seem to have her as Mary T (SMITH).
Newspaper cutting:
Family Notices – Deaths (cutting has ‘May” but NSW BDM has “Mary”.
At her residence, Illawarra Road, Sylvania, May Taylor SMITH, the dearly loved mother of Roy, Keith and Bruce, and mother in law of Lillian and Addie Smith, and wife of the late David Smith, aged 67 years. (Suddenly).
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15763047
Sydney Morning Herald, 7 Feb 1918, page 6
Mary T SMITH, died 6 Feb 1918, buried 9 Feb 1918, Woronora Memorial Park, Sutherland, Presbyterian Monumental Section TT, Grave 019.
NSW BDM deaths index online
#3939, 6 Feb 1918 (deduced date from their search option),
Mary T SMITH, aged 67 years, registered Sutherland District.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx
That NSW BDM link will also take you through to the following info re those elusive blanks on NSW marriage certs : ..... 1856 to 1895 church marriages registers. Some Registry marriage records from these years recorded only the details pertaining to the parties to the marriage. Details of the parents had been left blank although they appeared in the Church registers. ........ The Registry's records from these years are not complete and it can be worthwhile for genealogists to contact the relevant church to find details missing from a marriage certificate ....
Did Mary and David marry at Windsor (New South Wales) in 1881? Is this the index detail for that marriage? If so, what denomination, which clergyman, and what names for the witnesses ... I will try to help.
# 4317/1881 David SMITH and Mary T SMITH, registered Windsor District.
JM
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Hello JM, thank you for all your information. I will answer from the top.
Mary and David were married at Windsor in NSW. I have a copy of their Wedding Registration which I got from a transcription business. Their witnesses were Samuel David Cobcroft and Ellen Bushell. The Minister was Patrick Fitzgerald from the Presbyterian Church. I would imagine they may have been married at the Historic Ebenezer Church which was Presbyterian. The name Bushell is also in the family tree and is associated with the building of the Church.
The newspaper cutting about her death is definitely Mary. Bruce is my Grandfather and his wife is Addie. I visited the cemetery a couple of years ago. David and Mary are buried in an unmarked grave along with one of their grandsons. I am unable to mark the grave until I find the descendants of Roy (real name James Roy Smith) as he was named as Next of Kin.
I will have a look at the links you have supplied. Once again many thanks for your continued help.
Susan
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Hi there,
Some thoughts ... :)
Do you have copy of (or official transcription of) the birth cert for your Bruce? If so, what info is given on that document for his mum for her maiden name and any other former names …. Was she the informant – if not, who was? What occupation was given on that document for Bruce’s Dad?
Re the 1881 marriage,
did Mary sign or make her mark? If she signed, how did she sign:
Mary SMITH
Mary T SMITH
Mary Taylor SMITH
Mary TAYLOR
Mary B TAYLOR
Or some other way?
Re TAYLOR
From the 1878 NSW electoral roll for THE HAWKESBURY, within the Windsor Police District.
Edward TAYLOR, freehold, Summer Hill, Kurrajong
Benjamin TAYLOR, residence Clarendon
Re Samuel David COBCROFT
He is one of several by that surname on the NSW ER 1878 for THE HAWKESBURY
Samuel David COBCROFT, residence, Wilberforce.
Likely he would be connected to the following of that surname:
George Alexander, freehold, Wilberforce
James, residence, Wilberforce
James William, freehold, Wilberforce
John, (of) Bulga, freehold, Wilberforce
John Benjamin, residence, Wilberforce
David, (of) Richmond, freehold, Wilberforce
Richard William, residence, Wilberforce
Richard William (of) Sydney, freehold, Wilberforce
George, residence, Wilberforce
Henry, freehold, Wilberforce
From Greville’s Post Office Directory 1875 WILBERFORCE
NONE with surname TAYLOR
For surname SMITH: (more Cobcroft than Smith ! )
Alexander, farmer
Robert, farmer
Sarah, storekeeper
Thomas, farmer
For surname COBCROFT:
George, a farmer
G.A., an innkeeper
James, a farmer
James, no occupation given
John, no occupation given
For surname BUSHELL:
David, farmer
Paul, farmer
Grevilles PO Directory 1875 EBERNEZER
Jane SMITH, farmer, Lower Wilberforce
NONE surnamed TAYLOR, COBCROFT or BUSHELL
Is this your Bruce's NSW birth registration INDEX ref:
SMITH, Robert B, parents as David and Mary, registered Newtown District #26351/1892?
Have you considered contacting the Presbyterians re seeking access to their register for the details missing from NSW BDM summary registration?
https://preskey.org.au/committees/item/church-archives-nsw.html (please consider offering copy of your official transcription, as it may be helpful in locating the original register, which is church property).
https://trove.nla.gov.au/work/170883205?versionId=186362895
JM
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Hello JM, after some investigating I believe the Church they married in was the Scots Presbyterian which was demolished in the 1960's. I have sent an inquiry through their website asking about the old Registers so hopefully they can fill in some gaps. I only have a transcript of the marriage registration and will try to attach it. I also have a transcript of my grandfather's Birth Registration and Mary's name is listed as Mary Taylor, formerly Smith, born in Scotland. I never thought to look at that before. It is strange that her name is listed as Taylor formerly Smith because she married David Smith. I will endeavour to attach this as well. She may have been married previously to a Smith, then married another Smith. So many Smiths! not a good name to be doing research on.
Re the Post Office Directory for the name Smith, Robert and Sarah are the parents of David who is also listed as a farmer. I am only an amateur so thank you for letting me know about the Post Office Directories.
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:) I too am only an amateur :) - been amateuring since late 1950s ... I have ancestors back to 1790s in the Hawkesbury district. :)
JM
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Agh ... from Bruce's 1892 bc we learn that David knew Mary to be Mary TAYLOR formerly SMITH - as though she was born SMITH, became TAYLOR and then after marrying David in 1881, she became SMITH again :)
Yes, on the surface that seems to clash with the info the clergyman recorded on the summary info to NSW BDM in 1881 ... Mary noted there as a spinster.
Fingers crossed the original church register is available. It ought to be, but sometimes they are not easy to locate, or have deteriorated pages.
JM
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wow I would call you an expert. I have been doing this on and off since 2006. Haven't done much for the past 12 months and am only just getting back into it. My links to the Hawkesbury are through Mary's husband David, his father Robert was a convict who arrived on the Florentia in 1828. Robert married Sarah Brown whose father David arrived as a convict on the Pitt in 1792.
Cheers
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Nope, Experts are drips under pressure. I am NSW centric. My first migrant ancestors arrived in NSW in the 1790s. I have ancestors who came under sentence of a criminal court, others who came as part of garrison forces and others who came free as Missionaries. Then there are others who came free intending to fleece the general population, while there are some who arrived suffering gold fever, and some who were Bounty immigrants, or Assisted in some way to get here.
JM