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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: hamali on Thursday 30 November 17 14:29 GMT (UK)

Title: Tracing a family member
Post by: hamali on Thursday 30 November 17 14:29 GMT (UK)
Hi there , Can anybody help Im trying to trace a William Rowland Hale B 1886. all the info I have is that in 1920 in Camberwell he marries  Mary Frances Burns. I have found them in the 1939 census & he is down as a road sweeper, but I cant seem to trace him in 1911 or before that.

Also stuck on Mary Frances Burns as well all the info I have on her is her 1st marriage to William G Ware in 1911 then her 2nd marriage to William Rowland Hale & all the children she had from both marriages so would also love to go bk on her.

Thanks for any help at all

 :)
Title: Re: Tracing a family member
Post by: Lostris on Thursday 30 November 17 14:37 GMT (UK)
If you have the 1920 Marriage Cert, please quote from it:-

His Age would seem to be [1920-1886] - his Birth is registered in the St Olave District ...

His Father's name & Occupation ...

His abode and that of the Bride ...
Title: Re: Tracing a family member
Post by: lizdb on Thursday 30 November 17 14:39 GMT (UK)
Likewise for her from either marriage cert - father's name etc
Title: Re: Tracing a family member
Post by: hamali on Thursday 30 November 17 14:42 GMT (UK)
Hi there I have not got there marriage cert this info is from my Nan's birth cert & her marraige cert
Title: Re: Tracing a family member
Post by: lizdb on Thursday 30 November 17 14:44 GMT (UK)
Here is Mary Frances's first marriage - so now you have her fathers name!

24 Dec 1911
St John the Divine Kennington
William George Ware 23 widower horsekeeper of 55 Sultan Street father Henry Ware, horsekeeper
to
Mary Frances Burns 24 spinster of 55 Sultan Street , father Sidney Burns, bottle sorter

Both signed
Witnesses: E Budd?  and P Shaw?  (neither very easy to read)
Title: Re: Tracing a family member
Post by: hamali on Thursday 30 November 17 14:48 GMT (UK)
Thank you for that she never moved very far as when she had my nan the address is 49 Sultan Street
Title: Re: Tracing a family member
Post by: lizdb on Thursday 30 November 17 14:54 GMT (UK)
I think she may have started life as Mary Frances Ludlow

1901
17 Alsace Street Walworth
Sidney Burns 32 bottle porter bn Camberwell
Ann F 33 Newington
MAry F Ludlow 12 dtr  bn Peckham
Sarah A Burns 8 dtr
George H Burns 5 son
Mary V Burns dtr 8 mths
Title: Re: Tracing a family member
Post by: hamali on Thursday 30 November 17 14:59 GMT (UK)
Thank you for that I will look into this further  ;D
Title: Re: Tracing a family member
Post by: lizdb on Thursday 30 November 17 15:03 GMT (UK)
She can be seen in earlier (and later) censuses easily enough - I think she was born before the marriage and mum was maiden name Ludlow.

As for William Rowland HAle -

Christening
St MAry Southwark
2 Feb 1886
William Rowland Hale parents William and Sarah of 22 Fendall Street, labourer
Title: Re: Tracing a family member
Post by: lizdb on Thursday 30 November 17 15:06 GMT (UK)
1901
74 Beckett Street Camberwell
William Hale 41 gen labourer
Sarah 36
William 15  bn Bermonsey
ALice 13
Margaret 10
Clara 5
Charles 2
Title: Re: Tracing a family member
Post by: hamali on Thursday 30 November 17 15:09 GMT (UK)
oh thank you so much will now start tracing them backward  ;D
Title: Re: Tracing a family member
Post by: candrjm on Thursday 30 November 17 15:11 GMT (UK)
Marriage for parents of William Rowland Hale:

Marriages Mar 1883

HALE    William John        St Saviour Southwark    1d   15   
SYRES    Sarah         St. Saviour    1d   15


William's birth reg:

HALE, WILLIAM  ROWLAND      mother's maiden name SYERS      
GRO Reference: 1886  M Quarter in SAINT OLAVE SOUTHWARK  Volume 01D  Page 243
Title: Re: Tracing a family member
Post by: LizzieL on Thursday 30 November 17 15:22 GMT (UK)
There is a marriage in Newington on 2 Aug 1891 for Ann Frances Ludlow and a William Burns labourer. His father was also William (deceased) occ shoemaker. William made his mark, so possibly Sydney his second name or clerk muddled the name with his father's and he couldn't read to check it. Ann Ludlow's father was  John Richard Ludlow (deceased) occ carman
Title: Re: Tracing a family member
Post by: LizzieL on Thursday 30 November 17 15:32 GMT (UK)
That's odd the 1891 has Ann(a) Frances with father Henry not John Richard. same address as marriage record - 22 South street
Title: Re: Tracing a family member
Post by: hamali on Thursday 30 November 17 15:35 GMT (UK)
Oh dear that is odd I will see what her dad is called in the 1881 census
Title: Re: Tracing a family member
Post by: LizzieL on Thursday 30 November 17 15:56 GMT (UK)
A John Richard Ludlow occ Carman married Ann Culverwell on 25 Dec 1856, his father was Henry (deceased) also a carman, so may'be J R used hid father's name later? Need to find the daughter Anna Frances's birth reg to check mmn
Title: Re: Tracing a family member
Post by: hamali on Thursday 30 November 17 15:57 GMT (UK)
hi there LizzieL in 1891 Henry is her grandad as she is down as grandaughter not daughter
Title: Re: Tracing a family member
Post by: LizzieL on Thursday 30 November 17 15:59 GMT (UK)
Mary is grandaughter, the Ann who married Sydney ( or William ) Burns was the daughter,

Got Anna's birth reg
 
LUDLOW, FRANCES  ANN     mmn CULVERWELL     Q2 1867 NEWINGTON  Volume 01D  Page 240   
 
Title: Re: Tracing a family member
Post by: LizzieL on Thursday 30 November 17 16:28 GMT (UK)
Henry aka John Richard says he was born in Suffolk on the 1891 census but the only baptism I can find which fits is a John Richard bapt in 1832 in Oxford s/o Henry Ludlow and Fanny. Henry and John appear in Berks in 1851 with 1 year old Charles bic (Berks) others not bic. This matches with Charles Ludlow birth reg Reading 1840 mother's mn Shelton.
there is marriage between Henry Ludlow and Fanny Shelton by licence in Oxford on 25 Dec 1827.
Title: Re: Tracing a family member
Post by: LizzieL on Thursday 30 November 17 16:34 GMT (UK)
Looks like Henry, Fanny, daughter Fanny, son Charles in 1851 moved to London but no John Richard with them


Piece: 1530 Folio: 160 Page Number: 64