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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: guest259648 on Friday 01 December 17 07:25 GMT (UK)
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Searching for death or re-marriage record for Rosetta COPE nee CRANMER, born 1851. No sightings after 1881.
Born 20.3. 1851 as Rosetta CRANMER, baptised 1859 as Rose CRANMER.
Rose CRANMER married Henry COPE in 1872, Hackney/Woolwich/Greenwich area.
1881 census shows Rose COPE (wife, aged 30) in a property on her own, in Walthamstow. Husband Henry Cope is with his brother, elsewhere.
1882 Rose COPE has a son, Frank Henry COPE.
Then nothing.
1891 Henry COPE says he's a widower (he has little Frank with him), and he remarries in 1893.
Looks like Frank Henry Cope was Rose Cope's first child after 9 years of marriage, she'd have been 31, it would have been dangerous in the 1880s - the child lived, but did she survive?
I can't find any credible Death record for a Rose or Rosetta Cope in the 1880s in this area (Middlesex/Essex).
Are there any Nonconformist registers we can consult?
Rose Cranmer/Cope came from a Scottish/Irish family and could have been Presbyterian.
If not, are there any Missing Person registers, from the 1880s?
Rose COPE disappears from sight after the birth of the child in 1882, which is very puzzling, since her husband lives till 1902 and her mother Esther CRANMER is in service close by and lives to 1894.
Henry COPE, widower, remarries a servant-girl who worked with Esther Cranmer, and whose family (Aylett) is a neighbour to the Copes, as if this girl had been chosen (or invited?) to replace a lost wife.
Other possible scenario is that Henry COPE began a liaison with the girl who became his second wife, and Rose COPE objected and left (and remarried)?
Suggestions please, for lines of enquiry. Many thanks.
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Have you considered that she may have been admitted to an institution following child birth with possibly post natal depression and is not shown under her full name but just initials
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Have you considered that she may have been admitted to an institution following child birth with possibly post natal depression and is not shown under her full name but just initials
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Thank you for this, it's a good idea... I know a lot of women have long-lasting difficulties after childbirth... What kinds of 'institutions' were around in the 1880s? What consultable records do we have?
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Sorry I meant she would show on census with just initials
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Sorry I meant she would show on census with just initials
That's OK! You're perfectly right about the initials - and on the census I can see inmates at e.g. Broadmoor Asylum listed by their initials (and sex, and place of birth) which is helpful. Several other members of this family ended their days in an Asylum for various reasons, so it's definitely a possibility. I will check further :-)
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The Divorce Index on Find My Past has the following in 1886:
Cope (Henry) v C. ( Rose) & Fairchild (George).
A George Fairchild and wife Henrietta are living next door to Rose in 1881
Jo :)
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George and Rosa are in the US, in Philadelphia on 1900 census, with various children.
Jo :)
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Rose's grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/69817040
George died in 1910
Georges death certificate states he was born in England in 1851, his parents are listed as George and Rose Louisa Cope. I would suggest that as Rose died in 1902 the information was muddled up by the children with his wife's name instead of his mothers name given, his parents appear to be John and Elizabeth (as per English census records).
In 1900 census eldest son George is born abt 1886 in England, all other children born in Philadelphia, both George and Rose state that they immigrated in 1860! But in the 1910 census George, widower states he immigrated in 1885, eldest son George baptised in Philadelphia with several siblings in 1890.
Jo :)
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George and Rosa are in the US, in Philadelphia on 1900 census, with various children.
Jo :)
Hi there Jo, thank you for this fine piece of sleuthing... please help me understand... you say there are 3 names on a Divorce record (Find my Past)? I don't know how these records work: why are there 3 names here?
"Cope (Henry) v C. ( Rose) & Fairchild (George)"
Yes, I can see that there is a George Fairchild on the 1881 census living next to Rose Cope in Walthamstow. (28 Northcote Road).
Rose's husband Henry Cope also seems to have married in 1893 the (much younger) girl-next-door on the other side, Sarah Ann Aylett. Interesting!
How do I check out these USA records? Please teach me? There does seem to be some confusion over names...
I would love to believe that this is true, because I so wanted to find that Rose had survived past 1882, and there were children...You've got me very excited, and THANK YOU for your discoveries. Please keep writing. x
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Henry Cope petitioned for divorce (see files on the National Archives: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7984429 )
He named George Fairchild as co-respondent, which normally means that his wife had committed adultery with George Fairchild. By the law of the time, a husband divorcing his wife had to name a co-respondent (the same was not true in reverse). George may have been liable for costs if his "misconduct" with Rose was proven.
A good source for US records is familysearch. Here are the family (misindexed) in 1900:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M37B-HJZ
It looks to me like all the children as listed as born in Pennsylvania (exact birthplaces are generally not given on the US census).
I think this is Rosa (also with George) arriving into New York in 1886:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVSV-64XY
(no children with them)
Also her death:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VK88-J6L
And that of a child:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JDB4-F45
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Henry Cope petitioned for divorce (see files on the National Archives: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7984429 )
He named George Fairchild as co-respondent, which normally means that his wife had committed adultery with George Fairchild. By the law of the time, a husband divorcing his wife had to name a co-respondent (the same was not true in reverse). George may have been liable for costs if his "misconduct" with Rose was proven.
A good source for US records is familysearch. Here are the family (misindexed) in 1900:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M37B-HJZ
It looks to me like all the children as listed as born in Pennsylvania (exact birthplaces are generally not given on the US census).
I think this is Rosa (also with George) arriving into New York in 1886:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVSV-64XY
(no children with them)
Also her death:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VK88-J6L
And that of a child:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JDB4-F45
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Oh my goodness. I've found the Divorce papers... I am thrilled/shocked/happy/sad...and most of all, eternally grateful to you Jo for finding this information for me. What a wonderful gift you've given me.
It IS the right family... Rose 'Cranmer' is named in the papers (and the marriage certificate is given), and Cranmer is exactly what I want.
Thrilled, because Rose Cranmer had been un-findable - and no wonder, if she ran off to America with the guy next door...! Happy that I now know what happened to her, and happy that she had more children, and they had children, and the line is continuing, hooray!
Sad, though, that Henry Cope seems to have been cheated on - and so was George Fairchild's wife Harriet (who I see had to go into service for the rest of her life).
There is a family on Ancestry (Private Tree) called Marshall who descend from Rose & George's daughter Louisa Rose Fairchild/Marshall 1891 - 1962, and they know nothing about where Rose Cranmer/Cope/Fairchild came from - and now I will be able to tell them, because I have her history.
Rose (originally Rosetta) and her mother Esther Cranmer had a very difficult time - Esther (Marian Esther Chantler) had married Irish-born Hedley Cranmer, who very swiftly deserted his wife and little Rose in London, going back up North and calling himself a 'widow' (which he was definitely not), so that he could have other relationships (and children) with other women. He was in jail in the 1870s I think, can't recall off-hand what for.
It's good to see that Rose Fairchild named her first daughter Esther, after her mother.
Fascinating to see that the Fairchilds behave like many of the rest of us, in a very human fashion - being economical with information, vague about dates, and sometimes telling outright lies in order to get what they need, i.e. safety, work and shelter in a new and foreign land.
I'm still wondering: the eldest 'Fairchild' child in Pennsylvania seems to have been born in 1886 "in England", not the USA... the divorce was asked for in the same year, 1886...On one Ancestry chart, this George Harold Fairchild appears as 'half-brother' to the subsequent Fairchild children - so (if this is correct), was he George Fairchild's son, or Henry Cope's son? I can't find an 1886 Birth registration for him in England (there seems to be a later baptism for him in Pennsylvania, along with a younger brother). Rose and George are alone (no kids) on the boat to America - so was she pregnant with the boy? Otherwise, wouldn't he have been named on the ship's list, even if he were a baby? Could he have been born on the boat - would this have been considered 'England', because they hadn't yet disembarked? It might have been a reason for their apparently sudden flight from Essex to New York.
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Hi Dulcie,
You are very welcome, Jorose is the one who added the links to the divorce records and additional information. Note that the 1900 census states that Rose had 8 children, four of whom were living.
Good luck with your hunting and please let us know if you need any further help.
Merry Christmas, Jo :)
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Hi Dulcie,
You are very welcome, Jorose is the one who added the links to the divorce records and additional information. Note that the 1900 census states that Rose had 8 children, four of whom were living.
Good luck with your hunting and please let us know if you need any further help.
Merry Christmas, Jo :)
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Then I thank both you, Jo, and Jorose, for your expertise and generosity. It's made a huge positive difference to me.
Merry Christmas to you too :-) xx