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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Retriever on Saturday 02 December 17 16:27 GMT (UK)

Title: Princess Alice disaster
Post by: Retriever on Saturday 02 December 17 16:27 GMT (UK)
I have the death certificate for my relative who died in this disaster and am hoping someone can answer a question for me.

The death is recorded as 3rd September 1878 but the certificate was issued on the 6th December 1878. I know that inquests took place into this tragedy but am wondering how this affected the burials. Was an exception made and burials took place before death certificates were issued?

My relative and his wife were identified by his father and I am curious to find out (so far with no luck) as to where they were laid to rest.

Any information would be most welcome.
Title: Re: Princess Alice disaster
Post by: stanmapstone on Saturday 02 December 17 16:59 GMT (UK)
I have the death certificate for my relative who died in this disaster and am hoping someone can answer a question for me.
 Was an exception made and burials took place before death certificates were issued?
The 1874 Registration of Births and Deaths Act.
Section 17. A coroner, upon holding an inquest upon any body, may, if he thinks fit, by order under his hand authorise the body to be buried before registry of the death, and shall give such order to the relative of the deceased or other person who causes the body to be buried, or to the undertaker or other person having charge of the funeral ; and, except upon holding an inquest, no order, warrant, or other document for the burial of any body shall be given by the coroner.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1874/pdf/ukpga_18740088_en.pdf

Stan
Title: Re: Princess Alice disaster
Post by: cath151 on Saturday 02 December 17 17:04 GMT (UK)
There are a couple of detailed accounts of burials, when and mostly where in the newspapers.
eg. Bury and Norwich Post dated 17 th September details burials happening in the week or two before. Victims known were allowed to be buried by family.
Unknown victims were photographed and possessions kept before they were buried "in consequence of the danger to health it was found necessary to bury many bodies unidentified".

The accounts are available at FindMyPast and probably other archives
Cathy
Title: Re: Princess Alice disaster
Post by: cath151 on Saturday 02 December 17 17:31 GMT (UK)
It sounds like they were taken back to the family, if I have the right couple Walter and Bessie they were originally missing on Sep 7th but by Sep 10th along with many others they had been "claimed" by father George.
Cathy
Title: Re: Princess Alice disaster
Post by: Retriever on Saturday 02 December 17 17:40 GMT (UK)
Thatís them. I had thought that possibly the time between death and certificate issue would mean they were most likely in the mass grave.

If George arranged the burials Iím in trouble because I canít find him either!
Title: Re: Princess Alice disaster
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 December 17 19:53 GMT (UK)
Have you read this quite harrowing account?
http://www.eastlondonhistory.co.uk/sinking-princess-alice/

My great grandmother drowned in the Thames a few years later in 1898 when The HMS Albion was launched throwing people watching from the bank into the water. She is buried in a grave dedicated to the disaster and her burial was paid for by fund that was set up.  Was there a similar one for the victims of The Princess Alice?
Title: Re: Princess Alice disaster
Post by: dawnsh on Saturday 02 December 17 20:02 GMT (UK)
120 of the 600+ victims were buried at Woolwich cemetery. Records for them should be found at DeceasedOnline.


http://deceasedonlineblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/normal-0-ss-princess-alice-londons.html

I suppose the rest were repatriated to their last place of abode.
Title: Re: Princess Alice disaster
Post by: ankerdine on Saturday 02 December 17 20:48 GMT (UK)
What a tragedy?!  Surely the captain of the collier had some blame? No navigation lights, lookouts?

Judy
Title: Re: Princess Alice disaster
Post by: Retriever on Saturday 02 December 17 22:53 GMT (UK)
Unfortunately they aren't listed on Deceased on Line.

I went to a talk and the gentleman who gave it said the Princess Alice was to blame as she cut in front of the Bywell Castle. I would think the fact she was sliced in half means she was right across the Bywell Castle's bows. There seems to be suggestions that the Alice had no lookout in place.

Apparently there was a major sewage outlet in the area which added to the horror, that and the heavy clothing worn then, especially by the women, undoubtedly caused a lot of deaths.

Many thanks for the East London History link, I hadn't seen that.
Title: Re: Princess Alice disaster
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 December 17 23:18 GMT (UK)
Quote
that and the heavy clothing worn then, especially by the women, undoubtedly caused a lot of deaths.

That was why my great grandmother died. Both she and my great grandfather were thrown into the water. He rescued someone he thought was his wife, only to find it was someone in a similar coat. She left 6 children - my grandmother at 15 was the eldest and the youngest was 2.
Title: Re: Princess Alice disaster
Post by: ankerdine on Sunday 03 December 17 11:44 GMT (UK)
Thank you for this very sad but interesting storjudy
Title: Re: Princess Alice disaster
Post by: Retriever on Sunday 03 December 17 16:23 GMT (UK)
I was so sorry to hear of your great grandmother's tragic death Groom. It must have been very hard for the family to cope with. Hopefully your grandmother was used to helping her mother but even so it must have been hard for her to have that responsibility thrust on her, especially with such a young baby.

Walter and Bessie didn't have any children but the one I feel most sorry for is George, Walter's father. The 1871 census has his other son as an imbecile from birth. living with his father and sisters. George's wife is already in an asylum. I think I have the son as a pauper imbecile in a workhouse in Essex on the 1881 census.

George's father had died earlier in 1878 so the poor man had his father's death and then his son and daughter in law's deaths, which must have been made so much worse by having to identify them after several days in the foul waters of the Thames.

Hopefully one day I will find out where they were buried and also what happened to George. He seems to have vanished after the 1881 census.

Regards