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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: themonkeymonkey on Sunday 03 December 17 14:32 GMT (UK)
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A relative of mine John Thomson born 1879, Peterhead, Aberdeenshire, Scotland and his wife Elizabeth Third Cameron born 1882, Peterhead, Aberdeenshire, Scotland emigrated to New Zealand, they were living at 120 Park Road, Auckland, New Zealand in 1927 but I have no details of when they arrived there nor what happened to them can anyone help thanks.
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When did they marry and do you have them on census in 1911
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They married in 1906 in Peterhead but have not found them on the 1911 census so far.
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Thought I had found them in Surrey in the 1911 census but not :'(
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What record do you have for them from 1927 that gives that address?
Do you have any idea of John Thomson's occupation?
Who were their parents? (Might help ID if they moved on to Australia in particular as parents names are often found in death indexes there).
There are quite a number of John Thomsons about, unfortunately.
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Having said that, I started looking through the WWI John Thomsons and this may be him?
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=7825939&digital=yes
Born Peterhead 2 September 1880, a bill poster, resident 4 Ponsonby Road, Auckland, married (says June 1907 on the first page), no children under 16. He had some sort of minor heart condition but was otherwise well.
On Page 8 of his records proper details of next of kin are given - married Elizabeth Cameron 23/6/06 in Petershead, her address at the time recorded as c/o Mrs Steele, 49 Ardmore Road, Herne Bay, Auckland.
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The record I have is a passenger and crew list for Elizabeth Thomson, listing her as a sales manager and her husband as John Thomson, 120 Park Road, New Zealand.
John Thomson was listed as a gramaphone dealer, his parents were John Thomson (1844-1921) and Barbara Simpson (1861-1942).
Elizabeth Third Cameron was listed as a music teacher, her parents were James Sangster Cameron (1843-1913) and Elizabeth Guthrie (1846 -)
Your John Thomson is very possibly him the birth date is exactly a year out 2nd September 1879. Their marriage date was 20/6/06. Thanks.
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I can't seem to access the link you provided it says it is restricted for preservation reasons.
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Having said that, I started looking through the WWI John Thomsons and this may be him?
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=7825939&digital=yes
Hi ... the link is working but you just need to click on the "buff-coloured" link (THOMSON, John ...etc.) immediately underneath the words RECORD ONLINE.
(I know, it's a little confusing, isn't it ? ) ;D
~ Lu
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Thank you :) :D
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Have some more info to post shortly relating to addresses for this couple.
But meanwhile will ponder your additional post on their travel to NZ.
* Also, can you tell me please, is there an "Annie THOMSON - widow" likely to be in "the mix" here ? (Dates : circa 1911 to 1919 )
* Might the couple have been living with a relative in New Zealand ??
~ Lu
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... also ... can you give the date of that passenger/crew list you have, and name of vessel please ?
Saves having to look elsewhere for it.
~ Lu
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Only Elizabeth was traveling on the Calawai arrival date 30 Apr 1927 from Honolulu, Hawaii to San Pedro, California to Wilmington, North Carolina.
John had a sister Ann Thomson but she always lived in Scotland and also an aunt Ann Thomson but she also only lived in Scotland, I will check other relatives. Thank you so much for your help.
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Hi ... a further question ...
* How do you know they were living at "120 Park Road, New Zealand" in 1927 ??
Elizabeth is on a voyage also in 1927 - so does the passenger listing for her, give that address ?
Cheers.
~ Lu
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Yes as her next of kin John Thomson at that address,
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.... another question ... ;D
* Do you know of a John Cameron THOMSON ? Did John and Elizabeth maybe have a child of that name ?
[Asking because I need to connect it with some other "New Zealand" info I've found. ]
~ Lu
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I have not found any children but will check the name to see if I can find it on Scotlandspeople, thanks.
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No John Cameron Thomson :'(
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Hi ... thanks for the confirmation (will explain shortly how I came about that name).
And sorry, looks like I "jumped the gun" earlier ... I see that jorose had already asked the question re: the 1927 address. ;D
~ Lu
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No problem at all im grateful of any help.
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Hi
The following is from a search of electoral rolls in the Auckland area.
Obviously with names like John and Elizabeth - coupled with THOMSON, searches can take some time and there's is no guarantee in this case that I've "hit upon" the right people ??
However I've used info from the WW1 NZ Army file of the John THOMSON (found by jorose).
This John THOMSON enlisted in January of 1918. His next-of-kin is Elizabeth his wife, whose address was given as "c/- Mrs STEELE - 49 Ardmore Road." [That doesn't I suppose guarantee that Elizabeth was actually residing at that address ? ]
1919 - Auckland West roll
At # 49 Ardmore Road = John STEEL , warehouseman and Margaret STEEL, married.
At # 82 Jervois Road = John THOMSON, bill poster and Elizabeth THOMSON, married. Also same address, Annie THOMSON - widow :
[Note: Q : Was there another John THOMSON, with the occupation of bill poster and with a wife Elizabeth, elsewhere in Auckland ? Checked a few other rolls and didn't find one.
Don't know either whether John returned to this former occupation ?
Ardmore Road / Jervois Road were in the same electorate, so when John was released from the Army did they maybe find new digs close to the STEELs ?? As for the "Annie THOMSON - widow" she was at Jervois Road in 1914 but not after 1919. ]
~ Lu continues next > >
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1927 - you have the address of 120 Park Road, New Zealand from Elizabeth's entry on a passenger list.
So I'm assuming from that, that this Park Road is in Auckland ?
1928 - Auckland East electorate
THOMSON - John Cameron - 120a Park Road - occupation: designer
Mmm ... 120a would have been a separate dwelling sharing land with # 120 (Park Road).
Maybe the occupation of this chap isn't a fit for your John ?? But then again men took on all manner of occupations when times were "rough".
The "Cameron" name also caught my attention ?? I don't know, could this be John re-inventing himself ... did Elizabeth leave him maybe ?
1935 - Auckland - Eden roll
THOMSON - John Cameron - 20 Dominion Road - printer
1938 - Auckland - Roskill roll
THOMSON - John Cameron - Dominion Road Terminus - agent
Just threw in the above mainly because the only other John Cameron THOMSON I can find on NZ rolls comes a little later - from 1946. He appears to be a single man working as a carpenter and at one time sharing a house with a Betsy Pollock THOMSON - a spinster. His death > 1958 at Auckland > indexed as "THOMPSON" - and born circa 1877.
Was able to also view a Probate file containing his Will - he had a sister named Annie FORBES ?
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Can I ask, have you looked at Incoming UK passenger lists to see if John and Elizabeth returned to live in Scotland ?
~ Lu
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Cemetery record for John Cameron Thompson
Date of death
18 October 1958
Age at death
81
Gender
Male
Region
West
Interment type
Scattered Ashes
Funeral director
C Little & Sons Limited
Additional information
Comments: Cremated 20/10/1958 / Dr Turner Akld Mental Hospital / Dr Drury\ Scattered 21/10/58 Place Of Death:
Minniehaha.
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This may be the Betsy Pollock referred to in reply # 21.........
1977/41708 Thomson Betsy Kellock 18 June 1894
Minniehaha.
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He had an aunt called Ann Forbes Thomson and a sister called Ann Thomson so it could very possibly be that he changed his name a little, his age would be out by 2 years when he died but i'm still thinking it could be him. There is no information on when they left Scotland to go to New Zealand and also no return information but I will keep digging for that. Thank you so much for all of your help :).
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Hi ...
Here's the link to the Probate file containing the Will of John Cameron THOMSON, of Auckland, Wholesaler.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSNC-SJDX?i=200&cc=1865481&cat=2240878
A bequest was made to " my niece, Ray FORBES, (daughter of my sister, Annie FORBES)" ...
???
~ Lu
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Ann Forbes Thomson does not have a daughter called Ray Forbes, nor does his sister :(. It is quite confusing :(.
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... as I'd said earlier, this man's death record was in the name of "THOMPSON" - but you can see from the Will that he has signed very clearly as " J. C. THOMSON "
The Cemetery record has this information :
Waikumete Cemetery - Auckland
21544 - John Cameron THOMPSON - 81 years - occupation: Joiner
Died : 18-10-1958 Cremated : 20-10-1958 Ashes Scattered : 21-10-1958
Last Address : 2 Ponsonby Terrace :
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Just noting also, that the publicly (or publically - whichever you prefer ? ;D) available record at the cemetery website, bears these comments :
"Comments: Cremated 20-10-1958 / Dr. TURNER Akld*. Mental Hospital / Dr. DRURY / Scattered 21-10-1958. "
[* Akld is an abbreviation for "Auckland". ]
Would seem that this J.C. THOMPSON (who we know to be John Cameron THOMSON)
was under the care of the mental health authorities prior to his death (but we don't know the duration of that care). It could mean though that the informant to his death wasn't well acquainted with Mr THOMSON ??
The only thing I find puzzling is that he was a "joiner" (or carpenter), when there's no prior evidence him of working in that trade ???
~ Lu
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Hi ... have just spotted your comments re: Ann Forbes THOMSON etc.
Yes, as I said earlier I just threw this John Cameron THOMSON in the mix, because you never can be quite sure of facts when you only have "evidence" which is on the "skimpy side" of things.
Back to the "drawing board" I guess ?
I still cannot believe the co-incidence in there being a John Cameron THOMSON living at 120a Park Road in 1928 ... and Elizabeth THOMSON's record (passenger listing) of 1927 stating her husband John THOMSON lived at 120 Park Road. ???
~ Lu
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Hi ... an update.
I now say that the John Cameron THOMSON (also sp. THOMPSON) d. October 1958 at Auckland - aged 81 years (bc 1877), should be ruled out. ;D
Have no further info for him other than he may have been a relative of the Betsy Kellock THOMSON with whom he shared a residence in 1954.
[Betsy appears to have arrived in NZ in 1926 with a female relative Euphemia - who wed soon after. Betsy remained a spinster. Both were from Kirkcaldy and both were buried in late 1970's at Paeroa, NZ. ]
~ Lu
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Hi
Now returning to the John THOMSON who enlisted 1918 in the NZ Army (as found by jorose).
His occupation given as "bill poster".
And ... 1919 - John THOMSON, bill poster, with Elizabeth THOMSON, married, and Annie THOMSON, widow = all living at 82 Jervois Road
And ... John Cameron THOMSON - 1928 - of 120a Park Road - designer
And, from "NZ City and Area Directories" >
1933 - Auckland - Jno. C. THOMSON - adv. agent - at 120a Park Road.
I think the "designer" / "advertising agent" sit well with "bill poster". So I'll stick my neck out and say > same man. ;) [Possibly too, the John Cameron THOMSON - printer in 1935 ? ]
Please refer to my Replies # 20 and 21 for more detail.
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The 1933 directory showed also that there was no house numbered "120 Park Road" - only a number 120a [and to each side of that - # 118a and # 122.] It's possible 120a may have been part of business premises numbered 120 - which don't always feature with the residential listings ?
Accuracy of these directory listings ?? : Well it rather depends - unknown how regularly they were updated. I'd use them as a "stepping stone" and in conjunction with more reliable resources. ;)
~ Lu
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Thank you for all of your help I will keep ploughing away :)
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120 Park Road does appear to have been used for business purposes.......
[1924]
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19240429.2.4.2?query=120%20park%20road
[1926]
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19260424.2.10.4?query=120%20park%20road
[1930]
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19300814.2.7.1?query=120%20park%20road
[1945]
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19450714.2.5.4?query=120%20park%20road
Minniehaha.
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Having looked at the deaths from 1927, this would appear to be the only likely one for Elizabeth......
1967/28400 Thomson Elizabeth 85Y
Minniehaha.
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Having looked at the deaths from 1927, this would appear to be the only likely one for Elizabeth......
1967/28400 Thomson Elizabeth 85Y
Minniehaha.
Buried Otago, the widow of Andrew THOMSON.
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Thanks Lu............
Back to square one. ;D
Minniehaha.
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Thank you both for still looking :)