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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Brutushedge on Monday 04 December 17 22:10 GMT (UK)
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Could someone just help clarify this.
On all the marriage certificates I have found, the fathers of the bride and groom are listed, but are not necessarily the people who witness the marriage with their signature or mark. There presumably is no guarantee that the said fathers are even present at the marriage, or am I wrong? Also, is there any indication that the fathers are even still alive, or do I recall seeing a case where a bride's father was listed with the words "(dec)" after it? Was there any legal necessity to declare a father deceased when including his name on a certificate?
Sorry if this is pretty basic stuff, but it's still all quite new to me.
Thanks.
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You are not wrong.
The fathers' names are recorded but they do not have to be there, and they do not have to be recorded as deceased even if they are, if the question has not been asked, or the information not volunteered.
(I thought it was traditional for the best man and chief bridesmaid to sign as witnesses, not the Fathers)
Also, people lie.
(I assume we are talking about England and Wales, and in most years of 19th/20th century?)
https://www.family-tree.co.uk/how-to-guides/getting-started/what-information-can-be-found-on-a-marriage-certificate
Some discussion:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=672660.0
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There presumably is no guarantee that the said fathers are even present at the marriage,
That's correct
Witnesses can be anybody - friends/relatives/even "professional" witnesses (ie) church members who witness various ceremonies
Also, is there any indication that the fathers are even still alive, or do I recall seeing a case where a bride's father was listed with the words "(dec)" after it? Was there any legal necessity to declare a father deceased when including his name on a certificate?
Depends how the question was asked etc
If the vicar just asked for fathers names - then that's probably what he got. There was no requirement to declare whether father was deceased unless possibly where the couple were minors
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There's no guarantee that the father even existed either! Illegitimate people sometimes made up the names of their fathers or used the name of a different relative. ::)
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Thank you all for this information.
That is what I thought, and it clarifies a lot.
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Also fathers profession may or may not be accurate. Same goes for ages of bride and groom
Ed
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Yes, I have found lots of discrepancies in ages on the certificates and on censuses.
Thanks again to you all for clarifying this, and for the links to the articles.
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Brides may also be described as spinster when they were actually a widow; and presumably the same applies to grooms :)
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In summary I guess don't believe anything ;D
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In the Register Office, 1889, Kensington. The Register Office venue is predictable when you read the following.
Name and Surname, Bernard Vidal Shaw, Condition Bachelor
marries
Name and Surname, Gertrude Wynne Dallas, formerly Cole, Spinster.
Condition: The Divorced wife of Seymour Dallas.
Then two witnesses who are not family.
Had Bernard been the divorced party they would not have given him such a hard time.
One of the witnesses John Allan Battersby a few years later - Barrister also Clerk To The Holborn Board Of Guardians
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You should always take notice of the witnesses often they are a sibling of either bride or groom and the siblings future spouse, or other relatives and can help to confirm you have the right marriage. If you can see the actual register rather than a certificate by browsing a few pages you will see if either of the witnesses is the Parish Clerk or similar as they will appear on multiple marriage entries.
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Thanks miw.