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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Oneday on Friday 08 December 17 12:07 GMT (UK)

Title: WW1 record guidance
Post by: Oneday on Friday 08 December 17 12:07 GMT (UK)
I'm trying to find the best way to get a bit more information on a Royal Air Force member with no 280535 from 1918.    Their name is John Michael Hendrick born 1970 Cappoquin, Ireland. 

There is a possibility that he has a wife by the name of Mary.

I have his parent details & birth record but have no idea what happened to him in what I'm assuming is WW1.

Any guidance to point me in the right direction would be appreciated - I have been given the MOD site.  I was hoping there are other avenues to search.

Thanks.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Friday 08 December 17 12:14 GMT (UK)
If he was still serving after 1920 then the MOD is the only place you will find his service record.
Looking at his age is it correct to say he has previous service before joining the RAF ?
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: Oneday on Friday 08 December 17 12:17 GMT (UK)
If he was still serving after 1920 then the MOD is the only place you will find his service record.
Looking at his age is it correct to say he has previous service before joining the RAF ?

I wouldn't know about any prior service.  This is the only info I've been able to find other than birth records.  I'm not even sure if he survived the war.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: nanny jan on Friday 08 December 17 12:31 GMT (UK)
His RAF record is on FindMyPast.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 08 December 17 14:09 GMT (UK)
His RAF record lists his name as just 'John Hendrick'  ;)

He apparently died 22 November 1924
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: philipsearching on Friday 08 December 17 22:46 GMT (UK)
Copyright etc restrictions prevent me posting the full image, but this snippet should give you the essentials
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: Alfy Campbell on Saturday 16 December 17 10:22 GMT (UK)
I have a replacement of my Great grandfathers discharge paper, it tells me he has a DCM it’s the only fact I have no explanation  of how it was achieved, anyone able to help with this. I can pm all relevant info on discharge papers if anyone could help.

Sgt James Campbell 24324 Highland Light Infintry
Enlistment 27/07/14
Aged 22
Served with colours to 4/3/1919
Discharged 31/3/1920
Cause of Discharge general demobilisation  looks like para392.

I also bought his medal card
On this it’s says 10 batt Hli
Therater War first served France
Date on entering therater 11/12/15
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: philipsearching on Saturday 16 December 17 10:54 GMT (UK)
I have a replacement of my Great grandfathers discharge paper, it tells me he has a DCM itís the only fact I have no explanation  of how it was achieved, anyone able to help with this. I can pm all relevant info on discharge papers if anyone could help

The next place to look would be on one of the paysites (Anc of FindMyPast) to see if his service record survives as it should give more information.  If you post his name, service number and regiment we can do some digging.

If that fails, then regimental diaries or local newspapers may have information.

All the best
Philip

Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: ShaunJ on Saturday 16 December 17 11:16 GMT (UK)
Ancestry has WW1 DCM citations  https://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=1913
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: Alfy Campbell on Saturday 16 December 17 12:10 GMT (UK)
I have tried some sites in the past, when I was signed up to no avail but no longer a member. Iíve also edited detail of last post
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: newburychap on Saturday 16 December 17 13:17 GMT (UK)
I have a replacement of my Great grandfathers discharge paper, it tells me he has a DCM itís the only fact I have no explanation  of how it was achieved, anyone able to help with this. I can pm all relevant info on discharge papers if anyone could help.

The DCM is a little odd - the only James Campbell, HLI, listed on the Ancestry citations with a DCM is Cpl 200183 - but his medal index card does not show the DCM, but Sgt 24324's does. I wonder if it is a simple paperwork snafu?

You could try the London Gazette (free & online) which printed all DCM awards - you might turn up something Ancestry doesn't have.  However, the search of the Gazette is OCR based and misses a lot. Cpl 200183 was Gazetted 15 Nov 1918 (published in the 12 Nov 1918 edition). The only hit for 24324 is Pte John Hart of the Dorsets - he got a Military Medal.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: Alfy Campbell on Saturday 16 December 17 13:54 GMT (UK)
I have seen this before also but as you say the number is different.  So wasnít sure j campbell ainít a easy name to research as there is a lot of them.  If I were to apply for records what other info would I expect to get. From the facts I have.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Saturday 16 December 17 15:32 GMT (UK)
Odd, his Medal Roll has the DCM struck off. This is against the 10/HLI. He also served in the 5th.
200183 J. Campbell was in the 5th.
10/HLI diary: http://www.rootschat.com/links/01l6e/
The 5th were TF & re-numbered in 1917 hence the 200183 number.
His service record if it exists will tell you if they are one in the same but I suspect they are different men as there are 2 Medal Rolls.
His DCM has been crossed out.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: Alfy Campbell on Saturday 16 December 17 15:56 GMT (UK)
Could he have had a different number issued. What do mean struck off the medal card I have itís beside his surname, On his discharge paper itís also listed.  I donít have ancestry anymore so canít see your link.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Saturday 16 December 17 16:01 GMT (UK)
Amended above post.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: Alfy Campbell on Saturday 16 December 17 16:08 GMT (UK)
Thanks Jim Iím not up to speed with military records, the discharge paper proves the DCM.  But the records Iíve researched confused me with different numbers.  Not sure what my next course of action would be.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Saturday 16 December 17 16:12 GMT (UK)
OK 200183 James Campbell died of wounds 22/11/1917.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: Alfy Campbell on Saturday 16 December 17 16:14 GMT (UK)
Not him then my great papa didnít die till 1966
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Saturday 16 December 17 16:42 GMT (UK)
It may be as Newburychap said there's been an admin. cock up.
Gazetted 12 months after he died sounds a bit off so maybe your man was the one awarded it as per the Gazette entry but with the wrong number. However I can't see anything in the 10/Batt. war diary about it from July-Dec. 1918.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: Alfy Campbell on Saturday 16 December 17 16:58 GMT (UK)
Really strange, but appreciate your help.  Thank you
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Saturday 16 December 17 17:11 GMT (UK)
Sorted.
Awarded his DCM (with the 5th. Batt.) for his part in the assault on the Hindenburg Line 24-28th. Aug. 1918. He was given the 200183 number of the previous holder also J. Campbell who died in Nov. 1917.
On their arrival in France (April 1918) the C.O. lists all his men by name, rank & number & your man wasn't with them at that time.
June 1918 the 10th. Batt. returned to England & that was probably when he was transferred to the 5th.
Back with more later.
Later:
The 5/HLI were part of a major assault on the Hindenburg Line which was a huge (meant to be impregnable) trench system. It was formidable.
The below map shows the advance on the line (yellow) on the 24th. Aug.
On the 27th. they were ordered from that position & tasked with taking Fontaine Croisilles.
It was here E. of the Hindenburg Line he won his DCM.
Full map here: http://maps.nls.uk/view/101465074
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: Alfy Campbell on Saturday 16 December 17 19:17 GMT (UK)
Really appreciate this Jim, thank you so much.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Saturday 16 December 17 21:29 GMT (UK)
Precise locations of the captured weapons are indicated on this map. Square U.7 on the larger map.
They had made their way across the Sensee River & were heading towards the road when they encountered a field gun on the opposite side of the road firing at them from point blank range. They captured it & made their way into the command trench where they captured the 5 MG's plus several secret documents & other "trophies" as they called them.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: Alfy Campbell on Sunday 17 December 17 09:51 GMT (UK)
Amazing informative and really brave men.  Thank you Jim.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: Alfy Campbell on Sunday 17 December 17 14:47 GMT (UK)
Jim or anyone else since you guys have been so helpful could any of yous find me my other great papa John Greer Ė Royal Scots Ė Military Medal
A full platoon were holding a trench on 27th August 1918 when the works were mined and a
heavy loss of life was caused. Some sixteen of the men stuck to the ruins of the trench and held
the position all day, in face of a heavy bombardment. For their dogged bravery there soldiers
were recommended for the Military Medal.

I donít have any army number for him,  I also know that he lost 2 brother a James and William mm also. There was an Abraham and a Thomas also involved I have information on William and James but nothing for Abraham and Thomas no army numbers to get me started
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Sunday 17 December 17 16:23 GMT (UK)
No service record survives but his full placements were:
1/A & SH - 9751
12/A & SH - same number
11/Scottish Rifles - 27436
1/Scottish Rifles - same number
15/R.Scots - 51427
12/R.Scots - same number
This is what the LLT says about them:
A & SH
1st Battalion
August 1914 : in Dinapore, India. Returned to England, landing Plymouth on 19 November 1914. Moved to Winchester and came under orders of 81st Brigade in 27th Division.
20 December 1914 : landed at Le Havre.
Later moved to Salonika, arriving 12 December 1915

12th (Service) Battalion
Formed at Stirling in September 1914 as part of K3 and came under orders of 77th Brigade in 26th Division. Moved to Codford St Mary and went into billets in Bristol in November 1914. Moved to Sutton Veny in April 1915.
20 September 1915 : landed at Boulogne but soon moved and by November 1915 was at Salonika.

S.Rifles
11th (Service) Battalion
Formed at Hamilton in October 1914 as part of K3 and came under orders of 77th Brigade in 26th Division. Moved to Codford St Mary but by December 1914 was in billets in Bristol. Moved to Warminster in February 1915 and Sutton Veny in April.
Landed at Boulogne on 20 September 1915 but sailed for Salonika in November 1915.

1st Battalion
August 1914 : in Glasgow. Left by train for Southampton late on 13 August 1914. Next day, embarked on the SS ďCaledoniaĒ and sailed.
15 August 1914 : landed at Le Havre as Lines of Communication troops.
22 August 1914 : came under orders of 19th Infantry Brigade, which was not allocated to a Division but was an independent command at this time.
12 October 1914 : transferred with Brigade to 6th Division.
31 May 1915 : transferred with Brigade to 27th Division.
19 August 1915 : transferred with Brigade to 2nd Division.
25 November 1915 : transferred with Brigade to 33rd Division.

R.Scots.
15th (Service) Battalion (1st Edinburgh)
Formed at Edinburgh in September 1914 by the Lord Provost and City, although some 550 men were recruited in Manchester and for this reason the Battalion is sometimes referred to as the Manchester Scottish. Moved to Troon March 1915.
June 1915 : moved to Ripon and attached to 101st Brigade, 34th Division. Moved to Sutton Veny September 1915.
Landed at Le Havre 8 January 1916.
16 May 1918 : reduced to cadre strength after suffering heavy casualties.
17 May 1918 : attached to 39th Division.
14 August 1918 : disbanded in France.

12th (Service) Battalion
Formed at Edinburgh, August 1914, as part of K1.
August 1914 : attached to 27th Brigade, 9th (Scottish) Division and moved to Bordon.
Landed in France May 1915.


You can see that his first 3 Batts. were all in Salonika at the same time which is when he probably transferred from one to the other.
He must have gone to France with the 1/A & SH as they were the only Batt. there at the time he qualified for his 15 Star (6/3/15).
At some point he returned to France  & ended his service with the 12/RS this was probably after the 15/RS was disbanded.
If you can give the exact dates on the birth certs. against which Regt./Batt. he was in we might be able to tweak the dates of transfer.

1 Abraham Greer + 1 Abraham John Greer. He died & was from Ireland so not him.
This leaves:
Abraham Greer 16/HLI no. 23593 & 5/HLI no. 291985 (5/Batt. were TF hence the 6 digit number).
Not correct his 2nd. unit was 5/Gordon Highlanders no. 291985. They were also a Territorial Force Batt.

Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: Alfy Campbell on Sunday 17 December 17 16:41 GMT (UK)
10/2/1916 is lcpl in 12 batt A+SH not present on birth
29/1/1918 private 3rd Scottís rifles present at birth.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: MaxD on Sunday 17 December 17 16:47 GMT (UK)
 51247 John Greer MM was indeed serving with 12th Battalion R Scots.  The MM was gazetted 13 Jun 1919.  However, the war diary for August 1918 does not give any detail of an action such as you describe. On 27 August they were out of the line being inspected by the Div GOC. Perhaps the date is incorrect?  The diary for Sep 18 does list two MCs and 5 MMs (no names) "for the month".  May I ask where the info came from, there may be other clues.

Caveat - I haven't trawled all of 1918.

MaxD
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Sunday 17 December 17 16:58 GMT (UK)
Slight error so previous post amended.
There's no mention of 3/SR on his MIC which isn't unusual as this was a training Batt.
So back in the UK at this time. It's possible he received some sort of injury which took him out of front line service but not bad enough for a discharge but that's just guesswork on my part.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: Alfy Campbell on Sunday 17 December 17 17:07 GMT (UK)
I do recalling something in that book about him been injured once I get home il let yous know not sure if there any dates of this thou
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Sunday 17 December 17 17:15 GMT (UK)
Can you give some family info as there's a Thomas Greer 8/A & SH service record. Wife Mary m. 1911 + 2 children Violet & Victor. Ring any bells ?
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: Alfy Campbell on Sunday 17 December 17 17:32 GMT (UK)
Thomas and Mary Docherty's family were
Thomas Greer - he was born 12.10.1879. At 42 Turner Street Glasgow.
He was Illegitimate as his parents did not marry until 1880.
He was a coal Miner and married Elizabeth Jane Fox on the 21.7.1906 at Sandwick Kent
England.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: Alfy Campbell on Sunday 17 December 17 17:45 GMT (UK)
JOHN BUCHANAN GREER was born 7.11.1892 at 27 Wemysshill, Ovetown. Died
24/9/1948 at the County Hospital, Motherwell.
Married
Humphrey Greer b1893
Married Alice Munro died 1949
Abraham Douglas 1897 married Mary trueman
Died 1957
William b 1895
James Buchanan Greer 1881
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Sunday 17 December 17 18:44 GMT (UK)
It's probably a good idea to let you put all of this together as there's a lot of info about a number of men & it can get confusing.
Let us know who in particular you want info on & we'll deal with them one at a time.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: Alfy Campbell on Sunday 17 December 17 19:12 GMT (UK)
Jim my great papa is John so he would be number one
As for the rest Iím also helping other far out relations particularly Abraham but I take what yous can help with and I really appreciate it all
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Monday 18 December 17 12:58 GMT (UK)
Re. John as MaxD has said the action in which he won his MM didn't take place on the date you mentioned.
I believe it took place a month later on the 28th. Sept. E. of Becelaere Belgium.
The 12th. were in reserve & not part of the main force that attacked the German front line a few days earlier. On the 27th. Sept. they were brought up to relieve the 11/R.Scots & on the 28th. were ordered up to Becelaere where they took over a previously held German trench.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: Alfy Campbell on Monday 18 December 17 14:21 GMT (UK)
Finding all this so interesting.  It amazing the knowledge you guys can get a hold of.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Monday 18 December 17 17:47 GMT (UK)
Just to round him off it looks like John Greer probably attested around Xmas 1914 & after his 3 months training was posted to the 1/A & SH arriving in France March 1915 (15 Star). By the end of the year the 1st. & 12th Batts. were in Salonica. He's transferred from one to the other during 1916 & then into the 11th. Scottish Rifles. All of the above remained in that theatre for the duration.
At some point he's been posted the 1/S. Rifles (France).
For whatever reason he's been posted to the UK & the 3/S. Rifles.
Then back to France (1918) with the 15.R.Scots. & finishing his time with the 12/R.Scots. where he's awarded his MM.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Wednesday 20 December 17 12:05 GMT (UK)
This is what the poster has sent.
William Greer Ė Lance Corporal 335840 Ė Royal Scots 8th Battalion
Another of Overtownís soldier sons to get a place in the distinguished
honours line was Lance Corporal William Greer, Royal Scots, who was
awarded the Military Medal for gallantry in leading his men up to the
trenches under heavy shell fire. He was congratulated by the Major- General
commanding the division, and also by his officer, who wrote:-
ďI am glad that you have been rewarded not only for what you did the night
before the push, but for the good work you have always done. There is no
man in the company more deserving of recognition but you, and I am proud to
have you in my platoon. It has always been a pleasure to me to see how well you tackled any job
given you to do. I am sure that I speak for the platoon when I say we all congratulate you and
thank you for the service you have done us.Ē
Private Greer initially joined the Highland Light Infantry (7898) and transferred to the Royal
Scots, he landed in France 17th February 1915.

James Greer 1 Stone Row Highland Light Infantry (b 1882) kia 6 June 1917
John Greer 40 Castlehill Fues Royal Scots (b 1891)
Humphrey Greer 18 Castlehill Fues Royal Field Artillery (b1892)
William Greer 6 Castlehill Fues Royal Scots (b 1895) kia 11 April 1918
Abraham Greer 40 Castlehill Fues Highland Light Infantry (b 1898)

My reply:
I'm glad you've got William's service numbers because there are lots of William, James & Thomas Greers on the Rolls.
I know about Humphrey he was 225968 & a Special Reservist Class P. I believe this pretty much exempted him from active service because of his job so no medals awarded.
James Buchanan Greer was 39747 2/HLI.
Abraham Greer 16/HLI no. 23593.
His 2nd. unit was 5/Gordon Highlanders no. 291985.
First thing to say is that James Greer died 6/12/17
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Wednesday 20 December 17 13:10 GMT (UK)
Looking at James I can tell you he was in the Hindenburg line between Hermies & Moeuvres France.
The army had  attacked & taken the Hindenburg front line days earlier & the Germans brought up a huge number of reinforcements in order to take it back which they succeeded in achieving.
2/HLI were forced back to the old British front line where they were ordered to make their stand.
As this area had been abandoned previously large numbers of men were brought up at night to beef up it's defences.
As well as holding this position 2/HLI also sent out men to man posts which was now in no-mans-land.
The trench map has been overlayed with a deployment sketch map made by the CO showing the disposition of their front line positions & posts. The Hindenburg Line is on the right.
Full map K1 & 2: http://maps.nls.uk/view/101724042
He was one of 3 men to die that day.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: aak1957 on Thursday 21 December 17 10:52 GMT (UK)
According to the below record, on invisionzone, the Dundee Courier of 14 May 1915 says John Greer from Wishaw was recommended for the DCM. 

I've also seen the below quoted from another source, supposedly quoting the Gazette, but I can't find it myself:

"A full platoon were holding a trench "on 27th August 1918" when the works were mined and a heavy loss of life was caused.  Some sixteen of the men stuck to the ruins of the trench and held the position all day, in face of a heavy bombardment.  For their dogged bravery there soldiers were recommended for the Military Medal. (London Gazette, 17 June 1919)"

Was the action in 1915 or 1918?

See attachment:

Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: aak1957 on Thursday 21 December 17 11:47 GMT (UK)
This is what the poster has sent.
William Greer Ė Lance Corporal 335840 Ė Royal Scots 8th Battalion
Another of Overtownís soldier sons to get a place in the distinguished
honours line was Lance Corporal William Greer, Royal Scots, who was
awarded the Military Medal for gallantry in leading his men up to the
trenches under heavy shell fire. He was congratulated by the Major- General
commanding the division, and also by his officer, who wrote:-
ďI am glad that you have been rewarded not only for what you did the night
before the push, but for the good work you have always done. There is no
man in the company more deserving of recognition but you, and I am proud to
have you in my platoon. It has always been a pleasure to me to see how well you tackled any job
given you to do. I am sure that I speak for the platoon when I say we all congratulate you and
thank you for the service you have done us.Ē
Private Greer initially joined the Highland Light Infantry (7898) and transferred to the Royal
Scots, he landed in France 17th February 1915.


James Greer 1 Stone Row Highland Light Infantry (b 1882) kia 6 June 1917
John Greer 40 Castlehill Fues Royal Scots (b 1891)
Humphrey Greer 18 Castlehill Fues Royal Field Artillery (b1892)
William Greer 6 Castlehill Fues Royal Scots (b 1895) kia 11 April 1918
Abraham Greer 40 Castlehill Fues Highland Light Infantry (b 1898)
My reply:
I'm glad you've got William's service numbers because there are lots of William, James & Thomas Greers on the Rolls.
I know about Humphrey he was 225968 & a Special Reservist Class P. I believe this pretty much exempted him from active service because of his job so no medals awarded.
James Buchanan Greer was 39747 2/HLI.
Abraham Greer 16/HLI no. 23593.
His 2nd. unit was 5/Gordon Highlanders no. 291985.
First thing to say is that James Greer died 6/12/17

Here are two photos of William Greer. On the first he is seated with his brother Abraham standing. On the second he is on the right and I think you can see his MM ribbon. Can you help identify the brother he is alongside from his uniform. I know they changed regiments frequently. Any other info about the uniforms would be appreciated.

James Greer, Highland Light Infantry, (b 1882) kia 6 June 1917
John Greer, Royal Scots, (b 1891)
Humphrey Greer, Royal Field Artillery, (b1892)
William Greer, Royal Scots, (b 1895) kia 11 April 1918
Abraham Greer, Highland Light Infantry, (b 1898)
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 21 December 17 13:40 GMT (UK)
Great to see photos of these boys.
He also has 1 good conduct stripe & a wound stripe.
Gazetted 15/6/1917.
How confident are you that the other chap is a brother?
His cap badge looks very similar to the Lorne Scots who were Canadian.
William lost his life here in the area R19 & Q24:
http://maps.nls.uk/view/101723830
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: MaxD on Thursday 21 December 17 14:35 GMT (UK)
Was the action in 1915 or 1918?

The description of the 1915 action in the newspaper is essentially identical to the description of the August 1918 action given at the beginning of the Greer element of this thread which has been shown to be the wrong date and which it has been suggested took place in Sep 1918.

In addition, although the newspaper suggest that he (John Greer) and others were recommended for a DCM, there is no record of them actually being awarded  that medal.  The LG page posted is for Greer's Military Medal which may or may not be for the same (1915) action.  Capt Porteous mentioned was killed on 10 May 1915, he has a DSO and MID.

Unless the Dundee Courier was uncanningly prescient, it does seem that the  story and dates have  become mixed up over the years.

Tha action described clearly took place in 1915 (hope to find it soon in the war diary), the result as far as John Greer was concerned appears to be an MM awarded in 1919.

Pte Ballingall is descibed as having been wonded, he appears on a sick list with the date 17 April 1915 which might narrow down the search a bit.

MaxD

Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 21 December 17 14:57 GMT (UK)
Hi MaxD
I'm not sure it says he was recommended for the DCM. The way I'm reading it they were giving qualifying evidence for their CO.
Sort of located it in the war diary & it appears to be on the 14th. May 1915 which flies in the face of Capt. Porteus' death.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: MaxD on Thursday 21 December 17 15:07 GMT (UK)
Yes, saw the same dilemma although it doesn't say that Capt Porteous was alive at the time so I'd go for the 8th-14th, probably early in the period given the paper was published on the 14th.  The brigade diary (concealed in the 27 Div list by Ancestry) calls the 8th - 14th May difficult days.

My reckoning is that it is the wording in the newspaper that is confusing.

MaxD

Send three and fourpence we're going to a dance.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 21 December 17 15:33 GMT (UK)
Quote
Was the action in 1915 or 1918?
As far as I'm aware it was Sept. 28 1918. he won his MM.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 21 December 17 16:01 GMT (UK)
OK I think the action that Capt. Porteous won he DCM was March. 16 as this is when there was a mine explosion.
(forget previous post... wrong Greer).
Put me down for a ticket. I need r & r.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: aak1957 on Thursday 21 December 17 16:38 GMT (UK)

How confident are you that the other chap is a brother?


Hello Jim,

Thanks for your responses. Great work from you and MaxD.

The photo was taken in the Greers home town of Wishaw, so I'm quite confident. I also think the unknown soldier looks quite like Abraham in the first photo.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 21 December 17 16:51 GMT (UK)
Abraham was HLI & I would say it was him in pic. 1 but not pic. 2.
Back to John. This is the mound that was mined.
Title: Re: WW1 record guidance
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 21 December 17 17:07 GMT (UK)
managed to id the collar dogs=Pioneers.
I can't recall at present which one of the brothers was in a Pioneer Batt.
Abraham was in the 16/HLI a Pioneer Batt. but I can't believe it's him seated.
The other lad is also HLI.

Let's start again.
These are the Pioneer Batts. of the Regt's. we have:
8/R.Scots. (William) He might be wearing the HLI Tam as that was his Regt. He was only attached to the 8/R.Scots.
9/Gordons.
16/HLI (Abraham)
6/A & SH.
So William seated wearing the pre economy tunic & with the Pioneer collar dogs & Abraham wearing the economy tunic(1916 on) & no collar dogs as I believe they were discontinued.
So pic. 1 all correct.
Pic. 2 William wearing the Tam of the R.Scots & someone else.