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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: eileendavid on Monday 11 December 17 16:12 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone advise me if this baptism gives John as a shoemaker/cordwainer
christening: John Evans 10 December 1815 St Nicholas, Brighton, Sussex, England parents John and Isabella
Thanks
Eileen
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It says that the father was a Soldier in the 55th Foot
abode Barracks
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Jonw65
Thanks for that I looked at the 55th Foot and John Evans records I believe are on Find my past so will ask my friend to look for all the details as I don't have access to FindMyPast. It says he was born in Holywell and that he served in Ireland. His daughter Elizabeth my great great grandmother recorded on the 1841 census recorded she was born in Ireland.
If it is him his wife Isabella on the 1841 census with John and two other children in Liverpool recorded she and John (the son) was born out of the county.
Do you know whether they had trades prior to joining the army as my John Evans became a shoemaker.
Eileen
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Hi
They generally have a trade/occupation given on their enlistment.
But I don't have access to the John Evans army record either. It says on discovery that he was discharged age 44, and that seems to be in 1821.
Do you have a death/burial for your man in Liverpool, if so does the age fit with that?
John
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Hello John
Thanks for getting back. The John Evans I am looking for was a shoemaker who died in Circus Street Liverpool aged 53 in 1833 so only a couple of years out.
He married someone named Isabella and they had 7 children 5 of who were born in Liverpool from 1823 - 1831.
Isabella lived until 1848 so was on the 1841 census. She was born 1796 and her son John born circa 1816 both were recorded as being born out of the county. Isabella was living off her own means.
My great great grandmother Elizabeth Evans married Robert Forshaw in 1841 and was a minor.
On the census of the same year she was recorded as being born circa 1820 not in county and an I in the second column which is Ireland I believe.
The only John Evans born circa 1816 with parents John and Isabella Evans I have found is the one in Brighton Essex which you kindly told me was his father was a soldier living in the barracks.
When I checked with the archives the records said he was born in Holywell Wales (lots of Welsh went to Liverpool) I think it also read that he had served in Ireland so that would also fit with Elizabeth being born in Ireland.
This is the best lead I have had so far I have been chasing my tail and getting very frustrated. Not convinced this is the right one yet but it's the best so far :-\
Thanks for your help
Eileen
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Hi Eileen
Well, I have managed to get a look at the army record. There's not a lot of it! But it does say that by trade or occupation John was a Shoemaker.
So it is certainly looking promising.
Add to which John was discharged in Ireland in 1821, and your Elizabeth says that she was born in Ireland, possibly around that time?
So that is Elizabeth and husband Robert in the same street (Milton Street) as Isabella Evans in 1841? With Robert being a blacksmith.
And Robert and Elizabeth Forshaw witnessed the marriage of John Evans and Emma Newsham at St Peter Liverpool, 5 July 1845. John being a blacksmith of Milton Street, father John Evans, Shoe Maker.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L96J-K65Y?cat=122430
So far everything looks good. I think in 1851 John says he was born London. Which if not Brighton, where that baptism was, is at least a long way from Liverpool!
John
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Hello John
I had a good feeling about this and everything you said in your last post looks correct for my ancestors. Just need to find the marriage of John Evans and Isabella between 1812-1816 (Isabella wasn't born until 1796 according to death 1848 aged 52 and census 1841 in Milton Street.
On the marriage of John Evans jnr the signature looks the same as the one on his sisters marriage of 1841.
I have also found a baptism in Holywell for 1780 for a John Evans but unfortunately it doesn't give any parents names.
I can't thank you enough for the information you have given me.
Eileen
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Hello John
Sorry to trouble you but do you think you could have a look at
christening: Elizabeth Evans daughter of John & Isabella Evans.
4 December 1831
ST BOTOLPH BISHOPSGATE, LONDON, LONDON, ENGLAND
I doubt it is anything to do with my history but have to check? Still not found my Elizabeth's birth 1821 but it was supposedly in Ireland and just wondered if they had forgot to register her or that the LDS got the wrong date.
These Evans have me pulling my hair out.
Also is there a date when John left the 55th regiment and returned to being a shoemaker. He was living in Liverpool by the birth of his 3rd child Thomas as a shoemaker in 1823 with Isabella his wife.
I am wondering if they had John baptised and registered in Brighton because they weren't married can't find a marriage for John and Isabella but don't know if being in the army would have their own registration.
Thanks for all your help it's much appreciated.
Eileen
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Hi Eileen
The baptism in Bishopsgate was on the date you gave. Father John Evans was a Carpenter. Possibly two more there later to the same couple.
I'm afraid that I can still see no sign of your Elizabeth's birth/baptism.
However, a development.
John's birth is in the GRO Regimental Birth Indices
John Evans
place Brighton
year 1815
regiment 55th
vol 1088 page 3
There are at least a few more Evans registrations around that time with the 55th Foot given as the regiment. But with the name being Evans, they may not all relate to John and Isabella!
I noticed Jane Evans because she was on the same page as John
She is 1818, Jersey, vol 1088 page 15
And there is a baptism in St Helier that is interesting (on ancestry)
6 November 1818, Jane, daughter of John Evans & of Isabella Skelton his wife
It doesn't say that John was in the army. But then occupations weren't being given anyway. Names of godparents are there.
There was another one in St Helier, the year before!
5 October 1817, Margueret, daughter of John Evans & of Isabella Skelton his wife.
Godparents Hugh Mitchell, William Smith, Ann Mitchell, Margueret Smith
But I don't think that she is in the army birth indexes.
So the marriage for that couple must surely not be in Jersey, but in London!
5 January 1813, at All Hallows Barking
John Evans + Isabella Skelton.
witnessed by Hugh Mitchell, Margaret ?
If those were the daughters of the army John being baptized in Jersey, I would have wondered whether the godparents were going to be significant. Yet the name Hugh Mitchell pops up.
Perhaps I am reading too much into all this? There was even another 55th Foot John Evans army birth in 1819 in Jersey in those indexes, it is a common name.
It would also be good to know where the 55th were before Brighton.
John
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Hello John
This is were the 55th foot where and what years according to another post on rootschat.
1813-14 Low Countries
1814-20 England
1820-21 Ireland
I did think there was a wide gap in children from 1815 to 1821 so he could have been in Jersey? They definitely went to Brighton in fact they marched them all over the country as they didn't know what to do with them but I don't think it mentioned Jersey.
I picked this up off rootschat A Historical Account of the Services of the 34th & 55th Regiments.
http://archive.org/stream/ahistoricalacco01noakgoog#page/n78/mode/2up
Isabella who married John Evans was born in 1796 according to when she died so she would have been 17 if she was indeed Isabella Skelton and London would fit with what John junior said about being born in London but then the 55th moved to Brighton.
So the marriage for that couple must surely not be in Jersey, but in London!
Quote 5 January 1813, at All Hallows Barking
John Evans + Isabella Skelton.
witnessed by Hugh Mitchell, Margaret ?
Could that be Margartet Smith as in the christening?
Thanks for the info it's good of you to help
Eileen
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Hello John
I got in touch on rootschat with the armed forces and this is what was posted back
A detachment (part of) the 55th Foot went to Guernsey (not what you asked but near!) in Dec 1816 followed in Jan 1817 by the regiment. In August 1818 there are newspaper reports of (perhaps elements of) the regiment in Jersey. Can't tell exactly but they seem to have left end 1819. Source for this - newspapers reports of the period.
What do you think? I am getting quite excited that I may be able to put this branch to bed.
I don't know where John Evans enlisted or when but I have found a baptism of an Isabella Skelton in Cumberland. The regiment was originally from Westmorland and HQ was in Carlisle.
27 December 1795 Isabella Skelton parents Richard Skelton and Jane Hetherington.
BRAMPTON, CUMBERLAND, ENGLAND
Do you think we are on a winner?
On the Elizabeth front judging by the census of 1841 - 1871 think that she was born between beginning of April and beginning of June. However maybe they didn't register her with all the trauma of being demobbed and returned to Liverpool in late August.
Thanks so much for your assistance
Eileen
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Hi
The pension document says
55th Regt of Foot
Corpl. Jno Evans, born in the parish of Holewell, in the county of Flintshire
enlisted at Plymouth in the county of Devon, 27 May 1807, age 30, for life
Served 14 years 87 days (to 22 August 1821)
5 years 76 days as Private
9 years 11 days as Corporal
Disharged in consequence of a Reduction in the Establishment of the Corps
conduct Very Good
signs his name
Description:
Corporal John Evans
age about 44 years
height about 5 feet 6 inches
Brown hair
Grey eyes
fresh complexion
trade or occupation a Shoemaker
It is dated 22 August 1821, Enniskillen
I can't see any sign of Jane or Margaret in Liverpool though!
Jane Evans in the army births index does say 55th Foot, 1818, Jersey
But no Margaret there, and we have that baptism in St Helier in 1817.
Another problem? John Evans and Isabella Skelton both marked on that marriage.
So, whilst the army John looks good for Liverpool and your Elizabeth, the Skelton marriage may still be up in the air!
John
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Hello John
Thanks for getting back.
On the marriage cert both making their mark could he have learned to sign his name in the 55th foot?
On the matter of children in Liverpool after the baptisms of Thomas 1823, Sarah and James 1827 I have found nothing else. Maybe Margaret and Jane died, married or went into service prior to 1841 census? On the 1841 census Elizabeth was married to Robert Forshaw as you know and on the family census there is only Isabella, John jnr, Edward and Mary.
I will investigate further on Margaret and Jane.
Thanks
Eileen
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Hello John
Just to keep you in the loop.
I think Isabella Skelton who married John Evans in London 1813 was born in Brampton Cumberland in 1796. The witness at the wedding Hugh Michell (also godparents of Margaruet) I think married Ann Bell in Brampton Cumberland in 1812 (if he was a soldier with John Evans this could put the 55th in Cumberland/Westmorland in 1812)
The marriage probably took place in London as she was a minor (only 17)
I am still looking for Margaret and Jane but by the 1841 census they could have married or they could be in service somewhere.
Thanks for all your help
Eileen
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I don't know if anyone can help but John Evans joined the 55th foot in Plymouth in 1807 aged 30.
Thanks to rootschat I have his records from 1814 (muster rolls)
He joined in 1807 so any idea where I can find where he was until he met Isabella his wife in Cumberland in 1813/1814
Eileen