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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: -Glen- on Tuesday 12 December 17 16:28 GMT (UK)
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Could anyone tell me more about this photo? Which Regiment? Where could it have been taken? What year could this be?
I believe it's probably one of the following:
1. 38th Dufferin Rifles of Canada (c1911-14)
2. 1st Life Guards (1915-1916)
3. Gloucestershire Regiment (1916-1918)
They are the three that my ancestor belonged to.
Does anyone recognise the uniform?
Many thanks!
Glen :)
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Date is WW1 post 1916 - some are wearing the economy tunic, no pocket pleats or shoulder patches.
Regiment - tempted to say none of the above. The badge is not entirely circular, the sides are near vertical. The Gloucestershire Regiment was the Sphinx atop a scroll "Egypt" and 1st Life Guards was a small circle inscribed Life Guards with a crown atop so not those two. There is a resemblance to the Dufferin Rifles badge which has straightish sides with a 38 in the centre.
However, the uniform is not the seven button, stand up collar, no button on the lower pocket flaps Canadian uniform so I pass on a positive ident.
MaxD
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Thanks MaxD.
I've just checked his service records and it was the "13th Gloucesters" from 1916 onwards.
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Have to agree with MaxD, not the Gloucesters.
Possibly E. Lancs. looking at these 2.
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Good evening,
I would also say none of those above and not East Lancs either Jim. Their badge is an egg shaped wreath with sphinx over tablet (egypt) over a rose in the centre.
I think the Canadians were wearing British uniforms by 1916, their own were very tightly tailered and proved unsuitable in the trenches. But no Canada flashes showing on upper arms so not them.
MaxD has already described the other badges, off to do some research.
John915
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Thank you all for your responses! Very much appreciated!
We have two other photos of James, which he wears a uniform in both. Perhaps they'll help? I'll attach them here.
I've also just re-read his three sets of Army records and no mention of being transferred to another Regiment.
Thanks for your help! :)
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Completely different to the other cap badge.
Can you gives us name rank & number so we can take a look at his record.
Just noticed 2nd. man is a L/Cpl.
3rd. man's picture must be mid 20's as the lanyard is on the right. No medal ribbon so another man or your man didn't serve overseas possibly.
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James Edwin Smith (Sometimes Edwin incorrectly recorded as Edward)
1st Life Guards - 3743 (Never served overseas)
1915-1916
13th Gloucestershire Regiment - 30909 (Served in France and promoted to L/Cpl)
1916-1917
(Unable to find his Canadian record - pre 1915)
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On the first group photo in the bottom left hand corner there is diagonal writing in white ink next to the black written 77.
Three words, the first word starts Grays....., maybe Graystone Road with maybe Bath written underneath or similar words.
Can the photo be enhanced here to make the white ink more legible?
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Thanks tonepad! I've never noticed that white writing before!!!
It reads the following I think:
"Graystone ?"
"Bttn."
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Good evening,
I think your East Lancs was close Jim. I would say South Lancs, their badge was a slightly squared wreath with PoW feathers over sphinx and tablet. Egypt again.
Looks like Greystone road, Bath to me as well.
John915
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Not convinced re S. Lancs. These badges particularly the one's arrowed appear to have a crown atop.
The 2nd. picture is possibly him in a Canadian Regt. as the cap badge doesn't appear to be British.
The 3rd. picture must be someone else although they look alike as it's doubtful he re-joined after being discharged twice & as he served in France he would have had the Medal ribbons showing.
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I would agree with jim1 that the second pic looks very much like a Canadian cap badge. His greatcoat has turn ups to the sleeve makes it look like a cavalry greatcoat but he didn't make one stripe in the Life Guards. Don't know about Canadian ones.
The Dufferin Rifles come first in his service and the possible Canadian pic has him as a L Cpl but the Dufferin were a militia outfit so he could well have held one stripe in that unit before leaving Canada.
Best guess is to say that the original pic is, as said before, none of the above.
MaxD
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A few questions from looking at the unit photo :
The Lance-corporal on the left of the second row from the back is wearing a bandoleer, although he appears to be badged the same as the others. There also seems to be a badge over the rank stripe on his right arm and another on the lower arm. I can't discern what they are but presume the lower one relates to his speciality ?
The staff-, or colour-, sergeant (4th from left in the front rank) seems to have a pair of "stars" on his cuff. I don't think I've ever seen this before; anybody recognise it ?
The Warrant Officer is the only one clearly wearing a medal ribbon, which looks as if it could be the African Service Medal. There may be a couple of others with medals but I can't get sufficient resolution to be sure.
This unit is about platoon size but has two Officers, a Warrant Officer, a Staff Sgt. and two Sergeants. Two also wear white lanyards. An odd mixture if Infantry. Could they be a training unit or, perhaps, one of the support arms ?
Any thoughts ?
Maec
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Good morning,
The belt buckles tell us this is a territorial force unit not a regular battalion. The stars on the lower sleeve are territorial force proficiency stars. I'm surprised there are not more of them along the front row at least.
The officers are a captain and a lieutenant so it would be reasonable to think one is the platoon commander and the other the company commander.
I'm also surprised not to see more medal ribbons in the front row. Two possibilities for this; one is they enlisted after the Boer war. Secondly they were previously in the militia and didn't serve in SA but maybe in other places to release regulars for service in SA.
The man with bandolier could be the platoon messenger with a cycle or m/cycle.
John915
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Thank you, John.
Always something new to learn. :)
Maec
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Good morning,
You beat me to it this morning Maec, just going to post to say my previous is not a 100% accurate.
The stars are EFFICIENCY stars, 5 points. PROFFICIENCY stars, 4 points, were worn by senior NCOs above all other rank and insignias on the right arm.
Efficiency stars were awarded for every 5 years good service, they did not have to be consecutive. If you missed a year or 2 you did not lose what you had already got. 5 years was later reduced to 4 years.
I can't remember now which forum it was but most of this is found on one which MaxD also uses. Very good picture of a sergeant with profficiency star posted by him on there. I'm on my tablet so can't do links but if you search for "territorial force profficiency stars" and scrll down you should find it.
John915
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Thank you all. Thank you so much!
Apologies that I'm only just catching up on these replies now!!
I shall re-read them all and digest everything.
Thanks again,
Glen