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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Lost In Space on Saturday 16 December 17 17:06 GMT (UK)

Title: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: Lost In Space on Saturday 16 December 17 17:06 GMT (UK)
I shall list what I do know:

Annie Coughlan DOB 22 July 1894 (this was taken from the 1939 census)
Baptism of Annie Coughlan 18 Jan 1903.  Parents listed as Michael and Elizabeth Coughlan of 80 Eugenia Road (Church St Katherines, Rotherhithe). Annie's brother John William (1898) was also baptised the same day.
Michael & Elizabeth (nee Deamer) were married 18 Feb 1895.
Elizabeth Rebecca Deamer is listed as a spinster living at 60 Fawcett Road.
Elizabeth Rebecca Deamer, spinster of 60 Fawcett Road, also married John Joseph Bowman (of same address) 18 April 1892.

I believe Elizabeth Rebecca Deamer was born in Erith, Kent on 7 March 1872.  She appears in the 1901 Census but not the 1911.  Michael Coughlan is listed as widowed. I cannot find her death certificate.  Father James, mother Martha Bowman.

I believe John Joseph Bowman was born about 1872. Father Samuel (mother poss Sophia).  I cannot find a death certificate for John Joseph Bowman that seems to work with dates. 

To recap, I cant find a birth certificate for Annie Coughlan, a death certificate for either Elizabeth Rebecca Coughlan (nee Deamer, previously Bowman) nor John Joseph Bowman. 

I am wondering if the Bowmans were related - no idea on the rules for marriage in those days.

A fresh pair of eyes on this might see something I am missing, or advice of any type.  I have been going round in circles. 

I have copies of various certificates/pdfs.  Let me know if you want any. 

Title: Re: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 16 December 17 17:29 GMT (UK)
Could this be Annie's birth  - birth date could be incorrect :-\

BOWMAN, MARY  ANN     mmn DEAMER     
1894  March Quarter
ISLINGTON  Volume 01B  Page 236   
 
Title: Re: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: hanes teulu on Saturday 16 December 17 17:30 GMT (UK)
Check the 1911 Census for an Annie Coughlan, born 1894, place of birth Holloway (cannot post details - policy).

There are also 2 siblings who can be found with the mother's maiden name Deamer on the GRO.
Title: Re: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: JJen on Saturday 16 December 17 17:44 GMT (UK)
There is a Service record for a John Joseph Bowman (mother Sophia, living in Holloway) who deserted 10 May 1896 from Landguard Fort. It would appear that he was not of good character as there are a number of offences on his charge sheet.

There is no mention on the Service record of a marriage to Elizabeth Rebecca Deamer  :o

JJ
Title: Re: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 16 December 17 17:44 GMT (UK)
Check the 1911 Census for an Annie Coughlan, born 1894, place of birth Holloway (cannot post details - policy).

There are also 2 siblings who can be found with the mother's maiden name Deamer on the GRO.

We can post links to familysearch (free) though  :)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWPT-P1X
Title: Re: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: jonw65 on Saturday 16 December 17 18:07 GMT (UK)
We can post links to familysearch (free) though  :)

As long as they have an account! From today, a few days late, not logged in, no see.
Title: Re: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: Lost In Space on Saturday 16 December 17 18:16 GMT (UK)
Could this be Annie's birth  - birth date could be incorrect :-\

BOWMAN, MARY  ANN     mmn DEAMER     
1894  March Quarter
ISLINGTON  Volume 01B  Page 236

Where does it say mmn?  I didn't think they recorded those until later years?  This could be a possible though, thanks.
Title: Re: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 16 December 17 18:19 GMT (UK)
Mothers maiden name on GRO index are given at GRO website
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

There is currently a PDF trial running which means you can get some records at £6 instead of £9.25.  The information is the same as that printed on to certificates.
This index is also giving ages at death for early records
Title: Re: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: Lost In Space on Saturday 16 December 17 18:20 GMT (UK)
There is a Service record for a John Joseph Bowman (mother Sophia, living in Holloway) who deserted 10 May 1896 from Landguard Fort. It would appear that he was not of good character as there are a number of offences on his charge sheet.

There is no mention on the Service record of a marriage to Elizabeth Rebecca Deamer  :o

JJ

Well that's interesting.  Would make sense why she remarried.....  Thank you.  Did you find this on ancestry?
Title: Re: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 16 December 17 18:21 GMT (UK)
We can post links to familysearch (free) though  :)

As long as they have an account! From today, a few days late, not logged in, no see.

I noticed it was taking me straight to the log in page John and did not have the reminder banner  :-[
Title: Re: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: JJen on Saturday 16 December 17 18:21 GMT (UK)
Did you find this on ancestry?

Yes  :)
Title: Re: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: heywood on Saturday 16 December 17 18:24 GMT (UK)
We can post links to familysearch (free) though  :)

As long as they have an account! From today, a few days late, not logged in, no see.

Can you just not create an account?
Title: Re: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: Lost In Space on Saturday 16 December 17 18:25 GMT (UK)
Mothers maiden name on GRO index are given at GRO website
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

There is currently a PDF trial running which means you can get some records at £6 instead of £9.25.  The information is the same as that printed on to certificates.
This index is also giving ages at death for early records

Fantastic, thanks, have ordered.  I already had an account with GRO but always did my searching on freebmd first, which didn't list the mmn until the later years, unless I was doing something wrong. 
Title: Re: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 16 December 17 18:25 GMT (UK)
There is a Service record for a John Joseph Bowman (mother Sophia, living in Holloway) who deserted 10 May 1896 from Landguard Fort. It would appear that he was not of good character as there are a number of offences on his charge sheet.

There is no mention on the Service record of a marriage to Elizabeth Rebecca Deamer  :o

JJ

Well that's interesting.  Would make sense why she remarried.....  Thank you.  Did you find this on ancestry?

Perhaps he had not got permission to marry from the Army  :-\

His attestation is on Ancestry & FindMyPast
Title: Re: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: Lost In Space on Saturday 16 December 17 18:26 GMT (UK)
We can post links to familysearch (free) though  :)

As long as they have an account! From today, a few days late, not logged in, no see.

Can you just not create an account?

Yes I will.  I already have accounts with Ancestry and Findmypast, what's another one....... ;D
Title: Re: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: Lost In Space on Saturday 16 December 17 18:28 GMT (UK)
There is a Service record for a John Joseph Bowman (mother Sophia, living in Holloway) who deserted 10 May 1896 from Landguard Fort. It would appear that he was not of good character as there are a number of offences on his charge sheet.

There is no mention on the Service record of a marriage to Elizabeth Rebecca Deamer  :o

JJ

Well that's interesting.  Would make sense why she remarried.....  Thank you.  Did you find this on ancestry?

Perhaps he had not got permission to marry from the Army  :-\

His attestation is on Ancestry & FindMyPast

Thank you.  I clearly need to fine tune my searching skills.
Title: Re: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 16 December 17 18:32 GMT (UK)
We can post links to familysearch (free) though  :)

As long as they have an account! From today, a few days late, not logged in, no see.

Can you just not create an account?

Yes I will.  I already have accounts with Ancestry and Findmypast, what's another one....... ;D

Familysearch is free though  ;D
Title: Re: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: heywood on Saturday 16 December 17 18:40 GMT (UK)
Sorry, I thought John was implying that it was too late or something similar.

If you follow a link, you just sign in if not already signed in.

Title: Re: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: Lost In Space on Saturday 16 December 17 18:55 GMT (UK)
Excellent thanks everybody.

This of course means that I have possibly been researching a wrong line  :'(

Also as I cant find Elizabeth Coughlan's death between 1901 and 1911, she possibly went off somewhere with her ex-husband (or actual husband, depending......). 

So frustrating sometimes, one branch I have taken back to 1666, two others I am struggling in the late 1890s.  Oh well, onwards and upwards.   :-\
Title: Re: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: hanes teulu on Saturday 16 December 17 20:17 GMT (UK)
There's also an air force record for a John Joseph Bowman - who's next of kin is the same as the deserter record.
Title: Re: Coughlan/Deamer/Bowman missing birth and death
Post by: Lost In Space on Saturday 16 December 17 20:33 GMT (UK)
There's also an air force record for a John Joseph Bowman - who's next of kin is the same as the deserter record.

Yes I spotted that.  But I now know they were divorced so not even sure if John Joseph is the father of Annie.  I am hoping the divorce records will give more details.  Thanks for letting me know though, it is so hard sometimes finding info.