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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: slothbear on Sunday 17 December 17 16:09 GMT (UK)
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Hello I am looking for the parents or mainly the roberts linage of William Seth roberts born in or around 1823 in llanarmon . Not sure which llanarmon but I think it could be llanarmon yn lal ...
His grandmother could be Catherine as she is in the 1841 census with William Seth aged 90 .
Any help getting back further would be great and any ties linking them with llandegla , even better .
Thank you .
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Could you please give census details for William. Who did he marry -when/where
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As Rosie says, we do need far more details - William and Roberts are very common in that part of Wales as I know from own history.
Was his surname Seth or Roberts - it's a bit unclear.
Gadget
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Very sorry
It is the parish register of llanarmon yn ial I would like information from I think ?.
William Seth roberts was born approx 1823 , and I would like to know who his parents were please .
I am hoping it will say they are from llanarmon as well or anywhere nearby .
Thanks for your help .
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We need to see him on a census somewhere or have a bit more information as I mentioned earlier. I am not seeing anything for a William Seth Roberts until a birth in 1870 so need some clues as to who you are looking for.
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Is this the family in 1841
Llanrwst - H0107/1403 bk 18 f7 p7
Margret S Roberts 45
Cathrine Roberts 15
William S Roberts 15
Margrt A Roberts 14
Fanny A Roberts 11
Catherine Robert 90
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There is a bpt in 1825 in Llanarmon yn Ial but no mention of the Seth name:
4 May 1825
William Roberts s of John and Elizaberth . Abode Pen y graig. John was a miner.
This is the only bpt of a William Roberts in any of the Llanarmons at that time. are you sure that was his birthplace?
I do have the Blackwell (non-conformist) index but it's on my other computer and I'm not likely to
switch it on today.
Please give us some later census info so that we have better info. and can help with more confidence.
Gadget
A Red, Rosie - will have a look now :)
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It does not look like an S to me in the middle names :-\
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Sorry
Yes that is him in the census it gives him being born in llanarmon apart from one census 1871 which gives his birth as being in Glandesta ????
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It is only a distant relative to me but other family trees give the name William Seth or Seth roberts
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Who did he marry and when/where
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It does not look like an S to me in the middle names :-\
Just been looking, Rosie - looks like an like the others.
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could Gladesta be llandegla
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Very sorry again but as it's just a distant relative I have not looked at marriages etc I just wanted the male linage and just the basic information
Don't know how to paste the census info on here
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Thought Llandysul might be a possible - where was he living in 1871
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Broughton , Denbighshire
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So the baptism record you have showed in llanarmon cannot be the right one I guess as it gives his mother as Margaret s roberts age 45 in the 1841 census .
His grandmother was Catherine aged 90 , so just missing the father information .
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I think it is Llandegla - very feint but it's written Glandegla.
If you find a marriage for him, it would give his father.
I see that I've looked at that page before!
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I said it was the only one showing and not necessarily him - and the initials on that census are As not S - see Rosie's clip.
How do you know that this is the correct family?
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He married as Seth Roberts and can be found as that in 1871 Broughton
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5PR-8VD
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He married as Seth Roberts and can be found as that in 1871 Broughton
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5PR-8VD
Yes - already discussed that, Rosie :)
I think it is Llandegla - very feint but it's written Glandegla.
If you find a marriage for him, it would give his father.
I see that I've looked at that page before!
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He married as Seth Roberts and can be found as that in 1871 Broughton
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5PR-8VD
Yes - already discussed that, Rosie :)
Sorry I missed that :(
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I think the replies were coming thick and fast :)
I'll have a look for the marriage.
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A possible :
Seth Roberts married Maria Hughes 4 June 1850, Wrexham ,St Giles
His father was given as David Roberts
Gadget
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Wow great .
Will this help in anyway to getting information from the parish registers .
Like davids father his mother is Catherine from the 1841 census
Thank you both for your help ..
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Do you think there is any chance that we can go back another generation ?
Thank you.
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I've been having a look before he married. I don't think the 1841 you have is correct as he's William A Roberts.
Not found anything in Llanarmon yn Ial. I'll keep looking for a David Roberts, miner/labourer in that area.
Gadget
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How did you decide he was William Seth? All the census records 1851-1881 and his Marriage cert have him as just Seth.
His burial record of 1898, Bryneglwys, also has him as Seth.
Gadget
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Right!
I think this is probably your Seth:
Bryneglwys
8 Dec 1822
Seth Roberts, son of David (labourer) and Jane of Ty newydd, Pen y bedw.
This David fits the info of Seth's father on his marriage cert. Also. Bryneglwys is so close to Llandegla and part of Llanarmon yn Ial was transferred to Llandegla. It's a very good fit.
Gadget
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On the family trees I have looked at it gives his name William Seth , in 1841 it is William ..
not sure to be honest which name it is but like I said his other relatives have him down as William Seth
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That's great , fantastic .
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The 1841 that you found is NOT your Seth. How you came to think it was, I'm not sure, but it is not. None of his records mention that name.
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So in 1841 it gives a Catherine roberts age 90 , so she could be the mother of David maybe , but depends on the maiden name of his wife .
I have just gone off about three or four other family trees that all have the same information , I have a DNA match and was trying to connect our trees , so I have not actually research the branch myself .
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That record is nothing to do with him.
The part of the 1841 census where he is likely to be is probably missing - part of the wider Wrexham area and Llanarmon are listed on the missing list.
Don't rely on published trees.
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This is the snip that Rosie put up yesterday. It is clearly William A Roberts.
(http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=784283.0;attach=471459;image)
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Ok thank you for all your fantastic help and advice .
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I am not seeing him in 1851, could you please give census reference.
Thanks, Rosie
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They're at 2503/756/15 in 1851
In 1861 4286/24/41
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The 1822 Seth appears to have died as an infant. From the burial records, it looks as if there were a few infants buried around the same time in Pen y Bedw. Only other Seth married an Ellen/Elinor . I think it is possible that David and Jane had another Seth- will need to check records.
A possible David in 1851 in Wrexham - children living with them b. Llanarmon, (Evan) or Llandegla (married daughter, Ruth). David b. Llanarmon, Jane (possible mn of Davies) b. Corwen. It would be worth following this family back - bpts, etc.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG88-HXP
Another death that might fit Seth - 1888, Wrexham 1st Q, 11b, 237. Aged 63.
Gadget
PS - all these need to be checked - I'm too busy to search now.
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Looks as if the 1888 death was for the Broughton Seth. Maria is living with son in law Sydney Jones in 1891. Down as mother but looks very like Maria~ RG12/4615/39/9
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I have been looking at the various trees on William/Seth Roberts that were the source of the info from the OP.
It seems that only one of the owners had found Seth's marriage cert and a father David. Even so, the link to a possible David on the 1851 ( a year after Seth's marriage) links to a David who is a farmer of 150 acres, employing 4 labourers! The actual cert has David as a labourer.
Gadget
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Looks as if the 1888 death was for the Broughton Seth. Maria is living with son in law Sydney Jones in 1891. Down as mother but looks very like Maria~ RG12/4615/39/9
It looks as if the Sydney Jones was, in fact, daughter Sydney Jane Jones nee Roberts, b.c. 1852. She is on the 1901 at Black Lane road RG13/5220/85/3 . The enumerator obviously mis-copied from the schedule on the 1891.
Gadget
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They're at 2503/756/15 in 1851
In 1861 4286/24/41
Thank you ;D