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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: PtE on Thursday 21 December 17 18:29 GMT (UK)
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Hello to all the Sussex sleuths,
My family are generally from Kent, but I have an anomaly which I have not been able to solve.
One member of my ancestral family, Mary Hope, married Thomas Simmonds Cook at Boughton Monchelsea, Kent 18/7/1846.
The 1851 census has both Mary and Thomas listed as Cook, and they are living in Marden with two children. Neither of the children seem to be theirs but I may be wrong about the little girl.
Thomas is shown as being born in Lindfield, Sussex around 1815, and the marriage entry says that his father was Thomas Cook.
The strange thing is that after his death, his widow was calling herself Mary Simmonds, and I have only found death references for Thomas Simmonds in the relevant area of Kent, not Thomas Cook.
So, there are one or two possibilities that I can think of.
1) Thomas' mother was previously married to a Mr. Simmonds, he died, and she re-married Thomas Cook.
2) Thomas' mother was un-married when she gave birth to him and included the surname of his father as a middle name, which means she could have been a Cook.
3) Thomas' mother's maiden name was Simmonds,he was christened as Simmonds, and when she married Thomas Cook, his surname was added on the end.
4) The fathers name, Thomas Cook, was a fabrication, because the mother remained un-married, but wished to retain a bit of dignity.
Trouble is, I have been unable to find any details to prove or disprove these theories and am at a standstill. If anyone has any suggestions I would be most grateful to hear them.
Thank you for reading
PtE
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Have you found Thomas under either name in 1841?
Who witnessed the 1846 marriage? Was it the first marriage for both bride and groom?
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For those helping - the two children listed with the couple in 1851 are Selah H Cook, 9, daughter, born Boughton, and Thomas H Cook, 3mo, son, born Marden.
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Possible birth reg for "Selah" before the Cook-Hope marriage?
Celia Hope, Sep qtr 1841 Maidstone 5 271.
In 1861 she is Selah Simmonds, 19 b Boughton Monchelsea, in service in Loose.
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Birth reg for the son:
Thomas Simmonds Cook, mother's maiden name Hope, Jun qtr 1850 Maidstone 5 370.
I'm not sure why you thought neither child was theirs?
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Thanks for the replies avm228,
The daughter does seem to be Mary's child before she married Thomas Simmonds Cook, she also had an earlier daughter, Jemima, who didn't survive childhood. As for the little boy, the fact that he was born in Marden rather threw me off track and the fact that he was listed as Mary's grandson in a later census record. I actually found a Thomas Simmons born in Marden to an un-married mother in 1851, so put two and two together and made five!
As to finding Thomas Simmonds Cook in 1841, there are several Thomas Cooks around Sussex and,not being familiar with the county, I was really unsure if any of the locations were feasible. The other thing is, as already mentioned, why would the name of Cook be dropped by the widow? It doesn't make sense.
I have found several christenings for Thomas Cook in Sussex, but, again, I don't know if the locations would be right for someone born in Lindfield.
Mary's great uncle, Thomas Hope, was also living in Boughton Monchelsea in the 1840's and his wife was a Simmons, though her family were the Day's from Marden, so things do get a bit tangled at times.
There were many families around the Weald of Kent by the name of Simmonds, Simmons, Simons, and Symonds and sorting them out can be a nightmare, but I haven't as yet come across any who came over the county line from Sussex apart from this Thomas Simmonds Cook, so whether his family was connected to the Kent ones or not is something I would like to find out if possible.
Anyway, thanks for your help with the children, I will get the birth certificates.
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The 1861 is a bit muddled, but since the head of household is David Hope, Thomas Simmonds seems to be enumerated as his grandson rather than Mary's (all relationships being to the head).
Mary Simmonds Dau Wid 49
David Hope Head Wid 86
Thomas Simmonds Grandson 10
Emma Hope Granddaur 14
RG9/499/3/2.
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The daughter married as Selah Hope to Robert Baker, Maidstone, Sep qtr 1865.
They csn be found together in Hadlow in 1871 - she's Celia Baker, 28 b Boughton.
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Possibility for Thomas in 1841 is Thomas Cook, 27, R.R. Lab, in Edenbridge. Not born in county (Kent).
The occupation (railroad labourer?) is consistent with his 1851 occupation (railway platelayer).
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I suppose the most likely reason for Mary to have used the name Simmonds in widowhood would be that it was the name the couple used at the latter end of their married life. As yet we don't know why they would have switched from Cook.
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According to a free search of The Genealogist website there was a baptism of a Thomas Cook in Lindfield, Sussex, in 1816.
They offer to give us "Mother Forename", but not the fathers! So possibly illegitimate.
The Lindfield PR's have not been filmed by the LDS.
John
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Hello
A Thomas Cook was baptised at Lindfield 21 Jan 1816.
Father Francis Cook,mothers name not mentioned.
From SFHG
omega
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Couldn't it be Frances, the mother? We do sometimes see it spelt Francis even when it's a female.
Perhaps the original Lindfield record needs to be tracked down.
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It did say father
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Well I won't say the plot thickens, as some of the info that you have provided does seem to be correct. But I think it is fair to say that this particular family didn't believe in making things easy for later researchers.
We have got Thomas Simmonds Cook, born Lindfield 1816 possibly to an unmarried woman, possibly having a father called Francis, or possibly having a father called Thomas.
He marries Mary Hope in 1846 (which is true) and they live in Marden in 1851. Their son,Thomas is born in Marden, his birth is registered in Maidstone where his name is given as Thomas Simmonds Cook, then he is christened in Boughton Monchelsea where his name is given as Thomas Hope Cook. Then, in the 1861 census his name is given as Thomas Simmonds and Mary as Mary Simmonds.
Mary's daughter is either Selah or Celia and her surname is given as, Hope, Simmonds or Cook depending on what records one is looking at.
I have to thank you all for your input, I hope you didn't find this as confusing as I did!
My next step is to order the marriage certificate and see what name is given for Thomas' father if any. I'm not going to hold my breath though, as people were not above telling a few porkies when they thought it necessary.
Best regards and thanks again
PtE