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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: roycymru on Sunday 24 December 17 12:11 GMT (UK)
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Hope someone can help
Looking for the children of Joseph Davies and Mary (Bowen), second great aunts of mine who seem to disappear from the census after 1881/1891.
They were all born Pontyberem/Llannon, some of them ending up in Neath in 1891. I am presuming some got married and/or some may have died, but even with this knowledge I still can’t find them. Someone else may have a connection to them and know of their whereabouts and/or have better search skills than mine
They are
Jane Davies (03 Feb 1872) - may have died early as not in 1881 census
Hetty/Esther(18 May 1873)
Rachel (17 Sep 1875)
Mary ann (10 Apr 1877)
Alice (28 Nov 1878)
Maria (27 Apr 1881)
Eliza/Elizabeth (13 Mar 1883)
In 1881 Hetty, Rachel and Mary Ann are with their parents at Tairhod (later known as Wheel Row) in Glyn Hamlet, Llannon (i.e. Pontyberem).
Joseph dies in 1882 and Mary (Bowen) then marries a George Rees Thorburn in Neath in 1890 (Mary was the sister of George’s first wife Emily/Emma/Emiah Bowen)
In 1891 Hetty (now called Esther), Maria and Eliza (now called Elizabeth) are living with Mary and their step father George at 8 Abernant Terrace, Neath Higher with step brothers and sister; Thomas George Thorburn (marries a Mary Ann George) , William Rees Thorburn (marries and Elizabeth George), Mary Ann Thorburn (marries a John Davies) and David Thorburn (marries Mary “Unknown””). (There is also a younger sister Sarah Jane Thorburn (1866), marries a Griffith Rees Hughes, but not living with them).
Their mother Mary dies 19 Aug 1891 (buried Bethel Chapel, Glyn Neath ) and step father George dies 08 Jun 1895 (buried together with Mary and first wife Emily)
With the fantastic help of Sandra, Ciderdrinker, Millepede, Mabel and others I know Thomas (Tom) George Thorburn emigrated to Pennsylvania and that there is reference to him a Welsh newspaper (in Welsh) “Welsh Newspapers online site shows that Thomas George graduated as Bachelor of Music in 1908 - known as Tom, faithful member of Bethel who joined in all activities, especially singing, left Glynneath in 1897. lost his parents when young and care of the family fell on him. In the US is an eisteddfod adjudicator and leads the singing in the Hyde Park church, Scranton (separate brief english version mentions he has Kidwelly roots”
Although the above mentions Tom looking after his younger siblings, not sure if included his step sisters. There is no indication that they emigrated to Pennsylvania with him. Also no indication that they went to lives with srtp brothers or sisters (that I can find), so flummoxed
Happy Xmas
Roy
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Doesn't help with your problem - but seven girls under 12 ::)
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Hi,
This is the only Jane DAVIES death in Llanelly 1872 - 1881 that has the right age at death,
Jane DAVIES Jun Q 1872 Llanelly 11a 450
Age: 0
Regards,
Daisy
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Hi,
This is the only Jane DAVIES death in Llanelly 1872 - 1881 that has the right age at death,
Jane DAVIES Jun Q 1872 Llanelly 11a 450
Age: 0
Regards,
Daisy
Thanks. 1 down 6 to go!
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I think Hetty/Esther married a widower Joseph FELTON,
Marriage
Joseph FELTON Mar Q 1891 Merthyr Tydfil 11a 888
Jannet REES
1891 RG12/4442 f.16 p.14 Penderyn, Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorganshire
Chapel Road
Joseph FULTON Head 23 Coal Miner Glamorgan Cwmgwrach
Jennet " Wife 23 Brecknock Pendyrn
Language Spoken Welsh
Births
Mary Ann FELTON Mar Q 1892 Merthyr Tydfil 11a 731
mmn: REES
Margaret FELTON Dec Q 1893 Merthyr Tydfil 11a 687
mmn: REES Order
Morgan David FELTON Dec Q 1895 Merthyr Tydfil 11a 697
mmn: REES
James Robert FELTON Jun Q 1897 Merthyr Tydfil 11a 758
mmn: REES
Deaths
Morgan David FELTON Jun Q 1896 Merthyr Tydfil 11a 373
Age: 0
James Robert FELTON Sep Q 1897 Merthyr Tydfil 11a 417
Age: 0
Jennet FELTON Mar Q 1898 Merthyr Tydfil 11a 457
Age: 30
Then he marries Esther.....
Coffee then I'll type up my notes :)
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Marriage
Joseph FELTON Sep Q 1900 Neath 11a 1296
Esther DAVIES
Birth
Robert John FELTON Mar Q 1901 Neath 11a 951
mmn: DAVIES
1901 RG13/5059 f.41 p.25 Neath Higher, Glamorgan
1 Tanyrheol Cottage
FELTON
Joseph Head 33 Coal Miner Hewer (dittoed as) Glamorgan Neath Higher
Esther Wife 27 Carmarthen Pontyb??m
Mary A Daur 9 Glamorgan Penderyn
Maggie Daur 7 " "
Robert J Son 3m " Neath Higher
All except Robert have "Language Spoken" as Welsh.
Deaths
Robert John FELTON Mar Q 1902 Neath 11a 559
Age: 1
Joseph FELTON Dec Q 1902 Neath 11a 513
Age: 35
Then she remarries Morgan Evans....
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Marriage
Esther FELTON Jun Q 1903 Neath 11a 1415
Morgan EVANS
There are a lot of EVANS/DAVIES births in Neath, Carmarthen and surrounding areas so I can't tell which Elinor b.1903/1904 and which David Emlyn b.1908/1909 are theirs.
I lose her after the 1911 census.
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Fantastic. 2 down 5 to go!
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Given place of birth on 1911(https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7JM-SBK) I thin this the most likely birth
EVANS, DAVID EMLYN mmn DAVIES
q3 1908 CARMARTHEN Volume 11A Page 1337
A little local difficulty in 1917
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4104135/4104138/73/
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I also wonder about this for Alice
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7NY-BYR
There's a marriage in 1900 between David John and Alice Davies, and the children here have mmn Davies (youngest daughter's name in GRO birth reg is Merirna)
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Given place of birth on 1911(https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7JM-SBK) I thin this the most likely birth
EVANS, DAVID EMLYN mmn DAVIES
q3 1908 CARMARTHEN Volume 11A Page 1337
A little local difficulty in 1917
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4104135/4104138/73/
Have come to the same conclusion myself in the interim. Thanks. Although by 1911 esther and husband had moved back to Pontyberem and it says Elinor was born in Llannon, I wonder if this is actually the case. Given that that her and morgan evans married in Neath in 1903 I think there are a couple of candidates for her birth (see below).
Excellent spot on the newspaper article, sound an ‘interesting’ couple
EVANS, ELEANOR DAVIES
GRO Reference: 1904 M Quarter in NEATH Volume 11A Page 1021
EVANS, ELEANOR DAVIES
GRO Reference: 1904 S Quarter in NEATH Volume 11A Page 991
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I also wonder about this for Alice
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7NY-BYR
There's a marriage in 1900 between David John and Alice Davies, and the children here have mmn Davies (youngest daughter's name in GRO birth reg is Merirna)
You are doing very well. Thanks very much again. Looks like a very strong candidate. Now have to try and find her in 1891 and 1901 as his would help support this. The last instance I can find for her is in 1881 but she must be around somewhere. She would have been 12 in the 1891 census and 22 in the 1901 census
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This must be Alice and David in 1901 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9B3-7T1
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I have found this David (09 dec 1878) and Alice in the 1939 register with their children at Hyfrydle, including Annie M with a birth date of 20 sep 1903 and Mervina as Mervina Maddrick with a DOB of 07 feb 1908 and presumably another daughter, Jenny 17 jun 1918. “This” Alice has a birth date of 28 dec 1878, while ‘my’ Alice has a birth date of 28 nov 1878, therefore I think they must be the same, with either my recorded month of birth or that in the 1939 register being wrong.
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Hi,
I know the age is a bit out but I wonder if the person filling out the form would have known the right age for their little servant Alice,
1891 RG12/4515 f.40 p.10 Civil Parish: Llangendeirne Town: Cilcarw Carmarthenshire
Bridgend (Public House)
Thomas MORGAN Head 26 Licensed Victualler Carmarthen Llanelly
Martha " Wife 25 " "
Alice DAVIES Serv 10 Domestic Servant " Llanon
Regards,
Daisy
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Hi,
I know the age is a bit out but I wonder if the person filling out the form would have known the right age for their little servant Alice,
1891 RG12/4515 f.40 p.10 Civil Parish: Llangendeirne Town: Cilcarw Carmarthenshire
Bridgend (Public House)
Thomas MORGAN Head 26 Licensed Victualler Carmarthen Llanelly
Martha " Wife 25 " "
Alice DAVIES Serv 10 Domestic Servant " Llanon
Regards,
Daisy
Thanks. Does seem the only likely match. Poor thing. Hopefully they were related in some way and took good care of her
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This could be Rachel,
1891 RG12/4514 f.115 p.8 Civil Parish: Llanddarog
Monachlog?
Rachel DAVIES Serv 15 General Servant Domestic Carmarthen Llanon
In the household of Jeremiah JEREMY.
Possible marriage as the 1911 says that they have been married for 14 years,
Rachel DAVIES Jun Q 1897 Pontypridd 11a 806
John JONES
1901 RG13/5016 f.143 p.26 Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan
4 Old Ter. Thos St.
John JONES Head 28 Coal Hewer Glam Aberdare
Rachel " Wife 25 Carm Pontyberem
William J ROBERTS Boarder S 27 Coal Hewer Glam Llantrissent
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01l79/
Rachel JONES is a very common name to find after 1911 :D
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This could be Rachel,
1891 RG12/4514 f.115 p.8 Civil Parish: Llanddarog
Monachlog?
Rachel DAVIES Serv 15 General Servant Domestic Carmarthen Llanon
In the household of Jeremiah JEREMY.
Possible marriage as the 1911 says that they have been married for 14 years,
Rachel DAVIES Jun Q 1897 Pontypridd 11a 806
John JONES
1901 RG13/5016 f.143 p.26 Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan
4 Old Ter. Thos St.
John JONES Head 28 Coal Hewer Glam Aberdare
Rachel " Wife 25 Carm Pontyberem
William J ROBERTS Boarder S 27 Coal Hewer Glam Llantrissent
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01l79/
Rachel JONES is a very common name to find after 1911 :D
Than you very much. Does seem to fit. I think I’ll have to order the marriage certificate, only way to find out for definite
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Good news to report. The marriage certificate for Rachel Davies to John Jones has confirmed that she is “my” Rachel Davies. They married 25/05/1897. Her father was Joseph Davies, Collier, Deceased (all match). She was living at Betty’s House, Mardy. John Jones was living at North Furnace, Mardy, father was William Jones, Colliery Overman.
Thanks again to everyone for their help, via which I have been able to find out the fate of 4 of the 7 sisters. The other 3 could still be out there in census records somewhere but equally may have died young.