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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Familysearch on Thursday 28 December 17 10:35 GMT (UK)
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In November I posted a message about a relative who appeared to have disappeared without trace. There was such a positive response, leading to not only finding the relative, but also his family that I knew nothing of. I am most grateful to all those who had a hand in sorting them out for me.
I am now looking at my other brick wall, which has defeated me for a number of years. This involves two people - a father, JAMES LAMB and his son, JOHN (JOHN WILLIAM) LAMB.(1862? - 1939) I will list what I have, and hope that someone can point me in the right direction.
Marriage: 31 December 1884 in Bickerstaffe, Lancashire
John William Lamb and Margaret Cropper (both aged 22 years)
The father of John Lamb is given as James Lamb, occupation Moulder. There is no indication whether he is still alive at this date.
I have John Lamb on the 1881 census in Bickerstaffe, where he is an apprentice blacksmith. Place of birth is given as Liverpool. I also have him on all following available censuses up to and including 1911. I have traced in detail the children of John and Margaret and subsequent generations.
John William Lamb - Death: July/Aug/Sep 1939 Age 77 (I have sent for a copy of the death certificate)
I would love to get back in time to John's parents - this is the brick wall, which may lead to finding the rest of the family.
I may have missed the obvious last time around, or it may be that the information was not available on the internet then. (It was only looking at the 1939 that led me to suspect I had found my last missing relative, but sadly, John died in 1939 before the register was compiled).
Any help on this one would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
FS
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The 1911 census has JW and Margaret (& family) with his brother, George.
Have you tried tracing his brother?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWJ7-82K
and
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWJ7-MVP (Previous page ;D)
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Unfortunately he does not seem to be linked in any post-marriage census with a brother, helpful though that would have been. A bad day for the FS transcriber, perhaps.
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John really is a mystery pre-1881!
Just to rule out one avenue- I had a look at the 9 yr old John Lamb b Liverpool who appears in 1871 as grandson of John and Hannah Nalty in Cheadle (siblings Jane and Timothy). RG10/3666/118/4.
However, this John, Jane and Timothy appear to be the offspring of Hannah's son by a previous marriage, Timothy Lamb, and his wife Jane Jones (marr 1861).
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The 1911 document has John, Margaret and their 7 surviving children. I have traced all 9 of the births, marriages and deaths as appropriate.
No brother George on the document.
Thanks.
FS
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I'm wondering about the John Lamb aged 9 b Liverpool living at Howey Hill, Congleton in 1871, nephew of Cornelius E Lamb.
There is a school record for him in 1870, and under occupation of parent it states 'Dead'.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBFP-VWJ
Unfortunately Cornelius seems to have had several brothers & sisters so tracing them all will be quite a lengthy job.
Added: None of Cornelius's siblings appear to have been named James, unfortunately.
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The 1911 document has John, Margaret and their 7 surviving children. I have traced all 9 of the births, marriages and deaths as appropriate.
No brother George on the document.
READ previous postings. Look at the household before "your" one on the 1911.
Links were given . What have you traced of the brother George?
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The 1911 document has John, Margaret and their 7 surviving children. I have traced all 9 of the births, marriages and deaths as appropriate.
No brother George on the document.
READ previous postings. Look at the household before "your" one on the 1911.
Links were given . What have you traced of the brother George?
It is not the next household so probably mistranscribed. There is no mention on either of 'Brother'
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I don't have access to Ancestry, FindMyPast or The Genealogist, but FamilySearch says:
John William Lamb
England and Wales Census, 1911
Name: John William Lamb
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1911
Event Place: Brighouse, Rastrick Brighouse, Yorkshire (West Riding), England
County: Yorkshire (West Riding)
Parish: Brighouse
Sub-District: Brighouse
Registration District: Halifax
Gender: Male
Age: 48
Marital Status (Original): MARRIED
Occupation: BLACKSMITH
Birth Year (Estimated): 1863
Birthplace: Liverpool, Lancashire
Relationship to Head of Household: Brother
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Sorry, I wasn't looking at the transcription - I have the copy of the actual document, which was completed by the householder.
The links on the posting are not working for me.
FS
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I don't have access to Ancestry, FindMyPast or The Genealogist, but FamilySearch says:
John William Lamb
England and Wales Census, 1911
Name: John William Lamb
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1911
Event Place: Brighouse, Rastrick Brighouse, Yorkshire (West Riding), England
County: Yorkshire (West Riding)
Parish: Brighouse
Sub-District: Brighouse
Registration District: Halifax
Gender: Male
Age: 48
Marital Status (Original): MARRIED
Occupation: BLACKSMITH
Birth Year (Estimated): 1863
Birthplace: Liverpool, Lancashire
Relationship to Head of Household: Brother
Sorry KG but that transcript is misleading. :( J W Lamb & George are living at different addresses, neither record mentions a relationship of brother
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Have you created a free account on the familysearch website?
Not having one will stop you accessing the links.
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Have you created a free account on the familysearch website?
Not having one will stop you accessing the links.
Thank you - I hadn't realised that. I haven't used that site for some time.
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Have just downloaded the death certificate from GRO.
Date of death is 6 September 1939 - he only missed the 1939 register by a few weeks. Oh how different things would have been because his date of birth would have been listed on that.
Informant is one of his daughters.
So, I guess I am not really any further on in my search. And so far, nothing has popped up about James Lamb, his father.
My mother, sadly now deceased, always had the feeling they were from Ireland, but there was nothing definite. (Mind you, there is nothing definite about his birth in Liverpool, which he gives on all the census records since 1881.)
FS
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Just throwing this in as a possibility....
1861 - 5 Paget Place, Liverpool
Mary Lamb 55 Head b Ireland House Keeper
James Lamb 19 Son b Ireland Labourer In Iron Foundry
Liverpool Daily Post of 4 Dec 1866 reports a serious accident to James Lamb of 36 Tyndall St when two heavy moulds fell on his chest at Mr Jackson’s foundry, Great Howard Street.
The Liverpool Mercury of 6 Dec 1866 reports the inquest into his death & gives his address as 36 Findal Street and his employers as Jack & Co, Iron Founders. Along with other men he had been placing three iron moulds, weighing about 3 tons each, onto a carriage. James failed to shore them up securely and all three fell on him. He was taken to hospital but died the same evening.
Although he was a labourer rather than a moulder, the name & location both fit, and he was working with iron moulds when he died.
Unfortunately I can’t find a marriage between 1861 & 1866, but he could certainly have fathered a child in that time, possibly registered under the mother’s surname?
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Possible misread surname
LUMB, JOHN WILLIAM HALSTEAD
GRO Reference: 1862 J Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 109
I can't find a corresponding marriage though in Liverpool or near in either the surname Lamb or Lumb
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Thank you both for these replies. Certainly worth investigating.
I have treated myself to a 6 month Ancestry subscription (they made me an offer that was too good to refuse, bearing in mind my other access to Ancestry is a trip to the library!) I notice there are some Irish records on there, so will have a look around.
I am also using the subscription to update my current tree - amazing what is now available.
FS
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Just to update: I have obtained the certificates mentioned.
Unfortunately, the James William LUMB is Lumb.
The death in 1866 is a possible, I think. James is described on John William Lamb's marriage certificate as a moulder. We could, therefore, reason that maybe the young lad never knew his father and gave the nearest occupation he could. That particular family were never particularly accurate with information anyway - hence my predicament!
There is a reference to his grave on Find A Grave.
I have not been able to get the newspaper reports - Jomot, do you have a link to them, please?
Started trying to find out what happened to Mary after the 1861, but she seems to have disappeared. Plenty of Mary Lambs about - but not any that fit!
Anyway, might have moved a little closer with the 1861 census, and the subsequent death
Thanks.
FS
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I have not been able to get the newspaper reports - Jomot, do you have a link to them, please?
Sorry, I cant provide a link as the newspapers are on a subscription site, but if you have a sub then just narrow down by the dates & newspapers I gave you & then type 'James Lamb' in the search field.
His death / burial record is on Ancestry under Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials - St Mary, Highfield Street. Date of death given as 3 Dec 1866 in the hospital, aged 26. The find a grave entry is 7 December at Anfield Cemetery, Roman Catholic section, so presumably the service was held at St Mary and the actual burial at the municipal cemetery.