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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Oldleg on Friday 29 December 17 08:24 GMT (UK)

Title: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: Oldleg on Friday 29 December 17 08:24 GMT (UK)
Good morning, I hope everyone is having a fun filled festive season, no matter where you are in the world.

I was wondering if I could have some help here. I am researching the story of the death of RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie of 32 Sqdn. I know how he died but what I would like to find out is more about his personal life and his family. I understand looking at the Aukland War memorial that there were othe members of his family in the armed forces adn I would like to there fore learn about them as well. I believe he had a brother John Alan Kirkcaldie who I am very much intersted to learn about.

I would like to find out as mmuch as I can aeout the two of them, about their lives outside the forces and about what happened when John died etc.

Cheers,

Alex. 
Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: crisane on Friday 29 December 17 08:39 GMT (UK)
John Alan Kirkcaldie
Death Dec 1/4 1944
Registered Wellington, New Zealand
Folio number 4328

New Zealand, School Registers and Lists, 1850-1967
"Hadfield"
South Karori wellington
John Alan Kirkcaldie
Attendance 1919-1923
Flying Instructor "A" licence, Captain wellington Aero Club
Residence Wellington, New Zealand
Father - H A Kirkcaldie, Farmer
Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: crisane on Friday 29 December 17 08:49 GMT (UK)
New Zealand, School Registers and Lists, 1850-1967
"Hadfield"
David Kirkcaldie
Attendance Date 1919-1923
1 Sefton Street Highland park Wellington
Accountant, Motor Trader, Produce merchant, member of Crew NZ entrant First Trans Tasman Yacht Race 1932. Manager Produce Traders LTD Wellington
Father - H A Kirkcaldie
Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: crisane on Friday 29 December 17 08:55 GMT (UK)
"Hadfield"
Kenneth Kirkcaldie
Attendance Date:    1925-1929
1 Sefton Street Wellington, New Zealand
Father:H A Kirkaldie
School schol. X1 1923-1929, Prefect 1928/29.
Shooting V111. Victoria University College. LLM. Judges Associate. A Legal adviser to United Dominions Trust London

 New Zealand, Electoral Rolls, 1853-1981
 Kenneth Kirkcaldie
1935
District - Auckland East
12 Balfour Rd C4. Judges Associate
Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: crisane on Friday 29 December 17 09:01 GMT (UK)
Herbert Allan Kirkcaldie
Electoral Year:    1905-1906
District:    Hutt
Region Wellington
Clark Rd Khandallah. Accountant
With him is Kathleen Kircaldie

The last electoral roll for H A is in 1914
Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: crisane on Friday 29 December 17 09:09 GMT (UK)
Find A Grave
Herbert Allan Kirkcaldie
Died 28 Jul 1917
At Wellington New Zealand
Cemetery Karori Cemetery
Spouse:    Kathleen Kirkcaldie
Died at his residence in Khandallah, Wellington. Husband of Kathleen Kirkcaldie and second son of John Kirkcaldie.
Herbert and Kathleen were married Jun 22, 1904.
Children

Kenneth Kirkcaldie Birth unknown Death 8 Jun 1940
Burial Houville-en-Vexin Churchyard Houville-en-Vexin, Departement de l'Eure, Haute-Normandie, France Memorial ID 67205312


John Allan Kirkcaldie
Birth 1905 Wellington, New Zealand
Death 2 Dec 1944 Wellington, New Zealand
Burial Karori Cemetery Wellington, Wellington City, Wellington, New Zealand
Plot PUBLIC. 184 P Memorial ID 145331082



Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: crisane on Friday 29 December 17 09:14 GMT (UK)
New Zealand, School Registers and Lists, 1850-1967
Wanganui Collegiate School Register, 1854-1939
Herbert Allan Kircaldie 1887/1887
Son of J accountant Director of Kircaldie and Stains Ltd Member of Chamber of Commerce

Also Sydney - Once of Wellington. Son of J 1887/1887.
Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: Oldleg on Friday 29 December 17 10:32 GMT (UK)
Kirkcaldy and Stains, what did they do?

Esma Mae Kikcaldy, Kenneth's wife, what is known about her, what was her maiden name?
Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: crisane on Friday 29 December 17 19:17 GMT (UK)
Kirkcaldy and Stains, what did they do?

Kirkaldie and Staines was an upmarket department store on Lambton quay Wellington which closed in 2016. It is now a David Jones department store

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirkcaldie_%26_Stains
Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: crisane on Friday 29 December 17 19:28 GMT (UK)
The New Zealand Herald's report of airforce casualties on 14 June 1940 reports Kenneth Kircaldie missing but does not mention a wife, just his mother Mrs. Herbert Kircaldie.

Papers Past will help in your research.
Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: crisane on Friday 29 December 17 19:50 GMT (UK)
There is a lengthy obituary for Sidney Kirkcaldie, uncle to Kenneth in The Evening Post  27 April 1943 on Papers past site. He married Elsie May McGregor in 1903. It only mentions one brother E K Kirkcaldie but 4 sisters.
Sydney had 2 sons in the RNZAF.
There are photographs with the Kirkcaldie obituaries.

Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: crisane on Friday 29 December 17 19:56 GMT (UK)
Here is Kenneth's wife

Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: Oldleg on Saturday 30 December 17 09:47 GMT (UK)
John Alan Kirkcaldie
Death Dec 1/4 1944
Registered Wellington, New Zealand
Folio number 4328

New Zealand, School Registers and Lists, 1850-1967
"Hadfield"
South Karori wellington
John Alan Kirkcaldie
Attendance 1919-1923
Flying Instructor "A" licence, Captain wellington Aero Club
Residence Wellington, New Zealand
Father - H A Kirkcaldie, Farmer

Does anyone know how John died? 
Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: hurworth on Saturday 30 December 17 10:42 GMT (UK)
Kirkcaldy and Stains, what did they do?

Esma Mae Kikcaldy, Kenneth's wife, what is known about her, what was her maiden name?

Esme remarried to Ralph Francis Alnwick Grey.  Apparently Kenneth was his best friend.
Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: Oldleg on Saturday 30 December 17 17:25 GMT (UK)
I wonder why Esma is recorded as being from Nigeria with the Commonwealth's Grave Commission's record for her husband? Is there any link with Nigeria or is it a mistake? 
Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: crisane on Saturday 30 December 17 20:06 GMT (UK)
Esme's second husband worked there
Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: crisane on Saturday 30 December 17 20:21 GMT (UK)

Quote
Does anyone know how John died?

No indication of cause of death in his obituary or funeral notice. His death certificate will have that info.
Norman Kirkcaldie a brother of John's father H A. committed suicide in a club in Nelson by shooting.

Quote
New Zealand, School Registers and Lists, 1850-1967
"Hadfield"
South Karori wellington
John Alan Kirkcaldie
Attendance 1919-1923
Flying Instructor "A" licence, Captain wellington Aero Club
Residence Wellington, New Zealand
Father - H A Kirkcaldie, Farmer

In the above quote it is John who was the farmer, not his father.
Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: Oldleg on Sunday 31 December 17 08:43 GMT (UK)
Wow, where did you get the info on on the suicide? Why did he commit suicide? 
Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: crisane on Sunday 31 December 17 09:01 GMT (UK)
The death by suicide was reported in the papers.
I went on to paperspast.nz and just entered the surname Kirkcaldie into the search box.
Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: Warmingdrawer on Monday 03 September 18 12:02 BST (UK)
Hi Oldleg, how did you get on with your research into John and Kenneth Kirkcaldie?  They are relatives of mine and I'm doing some research too.  Cheers.
Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: Caldee Stones on Saturday 29 December 18 04:06 GMT (UK)
I know a small amount of Kenneth through my father.
He was a Master of Laws at age 21, granted from Victoria University.
He was a yachtsman and had his own sloop called 'Seabird' in the Royal Port Nicholson Yacht Club near Oriental Bay in Wellington.
He was a capable DIY'er and made modifications to his family home in Sefton Street, Wellington, to which the family moved from the Clark Street, Khandallah home when Herbert Allen died.
As a young man to "avoid getting his feet wet," Kenneth cut the trapdoor under the stairs at Sefton Street. It remains there to this day. From this point he would wriggle down to the granny flat below.

My father described him as a humorist though this was information passed down from his mother (Kenneth's sister)- my father said he never met him to his 'eternal grief.'
My father was the sum total off-spring of the four Kirkcaldie children. The three boys didn't breed, sadly, and only their sister, my grandmother Alison, had one child. He, my father, had four.

All three Kirkcaldie brothers- John (aka. Jack), David and of course Kenny, flew.
Their sister Alison was a stage actress and amateur artist.

Jack (possibly the eldest) was a farmer/pilot who used to round up the sheep using an obsolete ex-air-force two-motor aircraft (maybe a DC-3 Dakota?). My father suggested perhaps he carelessly ran out of petrol one day and flew his plane in to a cliff on his Makara farm (near Karori, Wellington).

David was considered an alcoholic, never married, also ex-RNZAF.
"A bit of a playboy." Not career-orientated, and used to live in the Sefton Street granny-flat, irritating Alison's husband by rapping on the windows as he walked past when he'd had one too many.
He was kicked out of the family home about 1951 so Alison could live in the granny flat and rent out the top two floors of the main house because her husband died unexpectedly. She had bills and her sons boarding school education to maintain.
David died in a converted garage on a hill above Pukerua Bay.
I think Kenneth was the youngest in the family.

There was an uncle or cousin, a farmer, called Bruce Kirkcaldie who lived near Otumoetai, Tauranga too, but unfortunately I know nothing of his details. I'd appreciate any details if anyone ever finds their way here and can elaborate further.

I hope this helps those searching.
You too Warmingdrawer.   :)
Title: Re: RAFVR 72526 Pilot Kenneth Kirkcaldie, 32 Sqdn and John Alan Kirkcaldie RNZAF
Post by: Caldee Stones on Saturday 29 December 18 04:19 GMT (UK)
They were married- Esme Mae and Kenneth.
When Kenneth died, eventually Esme married Ralph Grey who went on to become this handsome fellow;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sir_Ralph_Grey_in_1959.jpg

This is a photo we have floating about of Esme and Ralph. I do not have any of Esme and Kenneth.