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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: noytd on Saturday 30 December 17 13:49 GMT (UK)
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I was hoping that somebody might be able to identify, or rule this property out, as being Woodcote in Fairlight?
Many kind thanks :)
(https://preview.ibb.co/b43OZw/IMG_2190.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jeJCSG)
(https://preview.ibb.co/c9Zxuw/IMG_2191.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jUOqEw)
(https://preview.ibb.co/bzGMMb/IMG_2192.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gOMo1b)
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The postcode for Woodcote in Fairlight is TN35 4AH. Most properties there appear to be off the road, have you looked at online maps
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Many thanks for the reply :)
I have gone through the 1911 census trying to search for each property named Woodcote in the Sussex/Kent area (the car is Kent registered). The only clue I have is links to an unidentified country mansion (not Fairlight Hall though) and a wealthy family. This photo/property is potentially the key to unlocking the mystery.
Fairlight has so far produced the likeliest fit if Woodcote is in Sussex/Kent (I have 17 potential matches). I have carried out google searches etc, but have found no images that could be the house in the photos.
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This is the unidentified country house. I am assuming a Hastings link as I have family links to both the Parsons (newspaper owners) and Skymre (chemist owners) of Hastings. However, neither family to my knowledge owned such a country house.
(https://preview.ibb.co/iD32cG/Screen_Shot_2017_12_30_at_11_51_34_am.png) (https://ibb.co/mv5FxG)
(https://preview.ibb.co/bt9VWb/Screen_Shot_2017_12_30_at_11_51_48_am.png) (https://ibb.co/dC3qWb)
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Is it worth having your post transferred to
Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering board where it may find a wider audience. Look ups like this have been popular on there
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Hi Rosie, yes please do transfer this post if that might reach a wider audience :)
Many thanks.
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Just to add to the information that I have provided. The property named as Woodcote appears in a photo album directly after photographs taken of Bodiam Castle. According to Google this is only around 30 miles away from Fairlight.
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I think this is Woodcote, Fairlight on the 1928 map http://maps.nls.uk/view/103673149#zoom=4&lat=4417&lon=11865&layers=BT
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I think this is Woodcote, Fairlight on the 1928 map http://maps.nls.uk/view/103673149#zoom=4&lat=4417&lon=11865&layers=BT
Many thanks Kay. This would appear to rule out Fairlight.
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I've just done a quick search for the word 'Woodcote' in the newspaper archive.
There seem to have been quite a lot of houses with this name scattered throughout south-east England.
I've followed some of them up, but no luck yet :(
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When I first starting researching the album I was most excited to find a named house, but as you say it seems to have been a popular house name.
I have another post here which is regarding a property that is associated with Woodcote.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=784838.0
I have looked and looked at the images for any clues. All I can come up with is that the property is located near a beach (the woman in the beach photo in white top looks like the woman in the Woodcote photos). The southeast area is a guess from the car registration.
There is also a tower/castle on the same page as some of the Woodcote images. This looks to be by the sea and could possibly be in the same area? Bodiam Castle appears in the album but this appears to be a different structure.
I shall attach some photos of the pages with Woodcote in case they provide any clues that I have missed.
(https://preview.ibb.co/cuP7CG/IMG_2964.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hJTZsG)
(https://preview.ibb.co/eFXimb/IMG_2965.jpg) (https://ibb.co/daDCew)
(https://preview.ibb.co/i3cimb/IMG_2968.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jSUJKw)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jAWnCG/IMG_2967.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fK2usG)
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Think I might take a punt at Rye but may be way out.
Pheno
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Many thanks Pheno. I would say you are right.
In the image of the people on a cobbled street, you can just faintly see some kind of tower in the background. This looks a lot like St Mary the Virgin in Rye?
(https://preview.ibb.co/dLA0zw/IMG_2969.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ftkYKw)
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The Castle is the Ypres Tower in Rye (much restored)
http://ryesown.co.uk/rye-borough-police/ (scroll down for old photo)
The house on the left was the police station.
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In the image of the people on a cobbled street, you can just faintly see some kind of tower in the background. This looks a lot like St Mary the Virgin in Rye?
Yes, West Street,Rye, the church just vaguely visible in your photo. https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4516572
The building on the left is clearly the same in both photos.
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I have tried to locate a Woodcote on both the 1901 and 1911 census in the Rye area but without luck.
I had another go on the newspaper library and came up with this possibility though. The advert appeared in the Sussex Agricultural Express (17 January 1936).
A hopeful search of the Bates family frustratingly hit a dead end. Mrs Guy Bates (Stella) was the wife of Guy Ernest Lockington Bates. The son of a clergyman, alas no clergymen appear in the album.
Nevertheless, it perhaps provides a possibility for the house. I have not been able to find anything further about this location though.
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Their home on the register before WW2 is a large semi detached no house name mentioned :-\
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I found this book on Google - Lest I Forget: A Chequered Life by Rafe Bates.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Md6kAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=Guy+Ernest+Lockington+Bates&source=bl&ots=QE_w_sOfeo&sig=KQa1t9IyaoeuglYLk6TWNvjR_xI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwifn5jezrbYAhWVHsAKHSegCjAQ6AEIPTAI#v=onepage&q=Guy%20Ernest%20Lockington%20Bates&f=false
Curiously no mention of anywhere called Woodcote. The book features some Bates family photos, but none look familiar.
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Hello
Not much help I know,but car reg DY 2351 is Hastings.
omega
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Hello, I have just moved your topic to the dating and deciphering section of RootsChat.
Regards
Sarah :)
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Not sure if this is of any help but when I search the 1901 Census on FindMyPast with HOUSE-name "Woodcote" and county Sussex I get 8 hits in Fairlight.
Family names:
Clements
Crouch
Mills
Murray
Shadwell
Thorpe
My subscription ran out at the end of the year so I can't tell if the results refer to a street or a house, but the search was for house.
You'll get there!
Rebel
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The big house has been identified as Howbury Hall, Renhold, Bedfordshire by Yorkslass ;D
https://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/101138189-howbury-hall-renhold#.WmJb9esmKrV
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=784838.99
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Still thinking about this one, but I note from your latest post about the big house (Howbury Hall) that we seem to have been looking at the wrong family - see http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=784838.msg6421254#msg6421254
Back to Woodcote, and the car. It was registered in Kent (D6383) - have you considered asking for details of who it was registered to? See this page for details:
https://www.kentarchives.org.uk/vehicle-registration/
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Back to Woodcote, and the car. It was registered in Kent (D6383) - have you considered asking for details of who it was registered to? See this page for details:
https://www.kentarchives.org.uk/vehicle-registration/
Excellent suggestion, many thanks :) I have sent them an email asking if they have any information on two cars that appear in the album both registered in Kent. Fingers crossed this will provide a conclusive piece of evidence.
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Still waiting for the car registration details. However, as a stab in the dark could it be the same Woodcote as was on Bedfordwell Road in Eastbourne?
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Do you have any more information on that? The pictures I've found of Bedfordwell Road don't look promising, but I'm happy to reserve judgement.
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Do you have any more information on that? The pictures I've found of Bedfordwell Road don't look promising, but I'm happy to reserve judgement.
I am exploring the possibility of a link to the Fry family who lived at Woodcote in Eastbourne.
https://ibb.co/iLHo3m
The above link shows a good chance that my album contains a photo of Herbert Kearsley Fry (1874-1937).
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Herbert Kearsley Fry appears in a couple of self-hosted trees:
http://www.selwyn-family.me.uk/genealogy/getperson.php?personID=I0425&tree=SELWYN
https://www.antill.org.uk/getperson.php?personID=I87844&tree=1
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I have got the car registration details back.
One car was registered in July 1906 to Alfred Henry Smith of New Romney, Dymchurch.
The other car was registered in May 1911 to A, Henry Smith.
From what I can find, Alfred Henry Smith (1861-1928) had been a grocer and later an engineer who lived in New Romney for most of his life. His wife, whom he married in the 1880s, was Matilda Stonham (1857-1935). On the 1911 census Matilda's stepmother, Mary Stonham (1837-1912) was living in Fairlight in a property called Woodbine House on Pett Road.
I am guessing that the album and possibly Woodcote might relate to the family of Matilda Stonham. At present I have found no obvious link to Howbury Hall.
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'Woodcote' was in Sycamore Gardens, Dymchurch.
I can't post the photograph I came across, due to copyright.
The link below will take you to the website. Just scroll to the bottom of the initial screen and you will see a slideshow of photographs. 'Woodcote' can be seen on image no. 5.
https://theromneymarsh.net/ddhg
Trish
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Well done Trish, however did you find that ;D
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Many many kind thanks, I can't say how great it is to finally be able to know where this property was. Now hopefully I shall be able to find some sort of link with the photographs :)
It certainly clicks into place with the car in the photographs belonging to Alfred Henry Smith of Dymchurch.
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Brilliant, Trish!
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Thanks Rosie ;)
Noytd
You are very welcome.
I'm intrigued by old photographs and am always curious to find the location, if I can.
I revisted this post yesterday to see if there had been any updates and decided to do a little research on the Dymchurch area. It was purely by chance that I came across the photograph confirming the location of 'Woodcote'.
I would be very interested to know what is discovered about the inhabitants. :)
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I guess this is the 1911:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW6D-XY2
Maureen
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Wow Trish, brilliant!
Following up the 1911 census found by Maureen, I found this marriage.
William Ringland and on the same page Frances Ethel Coleman
Sept Q 1889 Wandsworth 1d 1068
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Thanks Arthurk & Jools :-*
The marriage of William Ringland and Frances Ethel Cole ended in divorce in April 1896.
The file is on Anc*
The photograph of the pretty nurse from Noytd's wonderful album may possibly be Effie Lyndall (Lyndale) Ringland. She was a V.A.D nurse.
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Woodcote is still standing, you can see the side of it on image No 9 on this link, just beyond the tower of the house next door. I can't seem to get it on streetview.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=22182835&sale=80864994&country=england
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William & Frances Ringland's daughter, Aileen Dora Ringland married Howard Leslie SMITH in 1918 in Lewes. I am trying to work out if there is a connection to Alfred Henry SMITH, who the cars were registered to.
No luck so far, and with a common name like Smith it could be a red herring.
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We know that Frances Ethel Ringland and her two daughters, Aileen Dora and Effie Lyndall, were at Woodcote on 2 April 1911 (when the 1911 census was taken) but we don't know when they arrived or when they left. They were in Wandsworth in 1901 census.
I've been looking through newspapers and have found articles relating to Mrs. Ringland, Miss Effie Ringland and Miss Dora Ringland in Dymchurch (though no specific mention of Woodcote). The earliest article is in 1907 and the latest in 1915. The articles themselves don't give many clues, they are mostly reports of local musical plays and social/fund raising events in the village, Effie acted in plays, Mrs. Ringland played piano/organ.
There are also some advertisements by (Aileen) Dora Ringland selling puppies, and on some she puts her address as NONSUCH, Dymchurch (1910, 1912, 1913) If you look at the original image of the 1911 the name Woodcote is crossed through and just visible is another word underneath - could that be Nonsuch? Woodcote is written again below.
I have also found a 1913 Area Directory record for Mrs. Ringland, Nonsuch, Sycamore Gardens, Dymchurch. I have browsed though Sycamore Gardens in 1911 and there is no other house called Nonsuch. So it appears the house may have changed its name at some point.
Just to confuse things, there is an article referring Mr. J H Cooper of Nonsuch in 1910 and also a Miss Fisk of Nonsuch in 1917.
Then I found the article below in the Folkestone, Hythe, Sandgate & Cheriton Herald 31 March 1917.
Effie married in 1916 and Aileen in 1918, so they would have moved on by then.
I'm not sure if this will help in any way.
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I'm sure we are not allowed to post details of the 1911 England Census Summary Books here. But if you have access have a look at Mrs Ringland, it should help clarify the house name issue ;)
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Many kind thanks for all of the responses.
I have tried to follow the life of Mr. Smith, and so far I have been unable to link him to the 1911 Ringland family.
The car registrations would tie Mr. Smith to "Woodcote" between at least 1906 and 1911, with the latest date (based on the cars) being 1913. I have not located the property in 1901 on the census.
I will try to keep building up his immediate family tree to see if anything crops up. I wonder if Woodcote could be the same as the 7 bedroom property? Or even if I could be some sort of annex to a larger neighbouring property?
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Hallo, I may be able to help with the Bates family . I believe the gentleman with the moustache and pipe in the photo street scene is GUY LOCKINGTON BATES, the father of GUY ERNEST LOCKINGTON BATES. your ad from Mrs GUY BATES, may have been placed by CLARA wife of GLB, or MAB, 2nd wife of GLB: rather than the wife of GELB.
GLB's father was JOHN LOCKINGTON BATES b.1839.
GLB b. 1867,
father of
GELB b. 1900
father of RAFE BATES.
JLB was vicar of Iden.
GLB was vicar of Playden
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Hallo, I may be able to help with the Bates family . I believe the gentleman with the moustache and pipe in the photo street scene is GUY LOCKINGTON BATES, the father of GUY ERNEST LOCKINGTON BATES. your ad from Mrs GUY BATES, may have been placed by CLARA wife of GLB, or MAB, 2nd wife of GLB: rather than the wife of GELB.
GLB's father was JOHN LOCKINGTON BATES b.1839.
GLB b. 1867,
father of
GELB b. 1900
father of RAFE BATES.
JLB was vicar of Iden.
GLB was vicar of Playden
Many kind thanks for the information, I shall certainly look into this :)
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Hi Trish,
I am not really sure how to use Roots.chat, so bare with me while I learn. You were discussing the home Woodcote, Dymchurch, Kent. Are you a descendant of Frances Ethel Ringland and one of her daughters Dora or Effie? I am a granddaughter of Frances Ethel's youngest sister Vera. I can take Frances Ethel's Coleman line back to 1705 and much farther on her mother's side. If we are related, I would like to discuss the family with you. Thank you.
Pat M.
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Hi Pat,
I am not a relation to the Ringland family. My participation on this post was helping to identify the location of a house in a photograph posted by another Rootschat member, noytd.
The house turned out to be ‘Woodcote’ in Dymchurch which was occupied by Frances Ethel Ringland.
I believe the photograph was in an album belonging to noytd’s family.
Regards
Trish
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Thank you Trish. I have been comparing a photo we have of the Ringland family of Woodcote, Dymchurch, Kent (not much of the house is visible). I will contact the Rootschat member, noytd.
many thanks for your help.
Pat M.