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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Suzy100 on Saturday 30 December 17 14:41 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I am trying to find the death of Charles Walker born 1870 (confirmed GRO) in Lambeth. Parents were George Walker and Elizabeth Carly (Carley). He married Alice Maria E Bulley in 1888 aged 18. In the 1891 census he is living with Alice and children Alice Amelia and Charles (born 1896). I cannot read his occupation however, but at the time of marriage he was a Postman. At some point he dies because in 1898 Alice remarries Francis William Gough. However I cannot find his death anywhere. I have done a search on the GRO and cannot find anything. I have searched newspapers but to no avail. There is some talk of him dying in San Paulo but why he would have been there I just cannot imagine. I have come to a dead end and any help would be most appreciated. :)
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I think his occupation in 1891 says Iron Furnace.
Many others on the same page have jobs to do with iron furnaces.
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1891 gives his place of birth as Brixton, Surrey. Occupation could be Iron Turner
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When Charles Walker married Alice Bulley in 1888 he was 19 and a Railway Servant (father George was a Carpenter) Alice Bulleys father was an Iron Moulder.
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There is some talk of him dying in San Paulo but why he would have been there I just cannot imagine.
The Sao Paulo railway was built and run by British engineers and staff - lots of them out there at that time.
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It's incidental to what you're searching for, but, like Rosie, I think the 1891 occupation is Iron Turner.
The occupational classification shown on the census form is O 21/8, which according to this form was 'Other Iron and Steel manufacturers' http://www.rootschat.com/links/01l88/ (r-h column,, about half-way down)
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Have you checked overseas deaths or maybe a passenger list has him travelling abroad :-\
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It's incidental to what you're searching for, but, like Rosie, I think the 1891 occupation is Iron Turner.
Okay looking at it again, I can now see Turner as the 2nd word ;D
Carol
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When Charles Walker married Alice Bulley in 1888 he was 19 and a Railway Servant
OP Suzy100 says he was a postman at time of marriage ???
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Does Alice's 2nd marriage certificate give any clues (widowed / missing presumed dead etc).
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I have checked outward passengers but the dates done match up as they had a child in 1896 so he must have been in England that year, then Alice married in 1898. There is an outgoing passenger in 1891 to Arizona but again this does not make sense, but the DOB is the same too.
Thanks for the occupation info, I did think it was Furnace too!
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Hi Deirdre784
yes it states Widowed.
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they had a child in 1896
Which child was that?
That really narrows down the time frame he must have died.
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When Charles Walker married Alice Bulley in 1888 he was 19 and a Railway Servant
OP Suzy100 says he was a postman at time of marriage ???
Parish register shows Railway Servant.
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Sorry ignore me he was a Railway Servant!! Not sure where I got the Postman from but I am sure I read it somewhere!! Sorry to mislead. :-[
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Sorry ignore me he was a Railway Servant!! Not sure where I got the Postman from but I am sure I read it somewhere!! Sorry to mislead. :-[
No problem to me (I hadn't done any searches, was just reading the topic); I was just intrigued by the difference ;D
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Don't know if this helps but London school admissions for Florence gives Charles Walker on one record dated 23 Mar 1897 but another record 13 Feb 1899 just has mother Alice Walker indicating Charles was no more?
Wasn't she Alice Gough by then?
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they had a child in 1896
Which child was that?
That really narrows down the time frame he must have died.
They had these children after 1891
WALKER, FLORENCE mmn BULLEY
GRO Reference: 1893 M Quarter
LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 482
WALKER, CHARLES FREDERICK mmn BULLEY
1896 March Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 454
Presumably the Charles showing in 1891 was the one registered Wandsworth who must have died
WALKER, CHARLES mmn BULLEY
1890 D Quarter
WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 541
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Occupation could be Iron Turner
Yes
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Hi Rosie99
Yes he must have died between about 1896 and 1898 as Charles Frederick was baptised on 31st January 1896 and it does not say on the baptism register that he was deceased. Which only gives two years if not less as I am sure she would not have married straight away! Very strange.
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Just as on marriage certs, it can't be guaranteed that the father was still alive; I have several baptisms where the father died before the birth or baptism, but not recorded as deceased in the baptism register. I also have one case where a baby was baptised twice after his mother had died (once in her home town where the couple had married and again a few months later back where they had been living); neither mentioned she was deceased either.
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Yes but it could only have been from 1896 to 1898 when she remarried so I am guessing 1897 is the year he died, giving Alice about a year to remarry. It has to be within that time. Yet I still cannot find a death. I wonder if around that time men were going to Brazil for work!? Just a long shot.
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And do you have certificates for the children's births ?
It would be interesting to see if any mention him as deceased - or what his occupation was. Also if she or he was the informant.
I wonder if around that time men were going to Brazil for work!?
See my previous post about the Sao Paolo Railway Company (and there were others)
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Well only for Amelia Elizabeth and Amelia Elizabeth Walker. But I have checked on the GRO for the others. The two that I have are 1889 and 1894 both have father Charles Walker occupation Engine Turner. I will order Charles today.
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Even if Charles is listed as the father on Charles' birth cert it doesn't guarantee 100% that he was the father (unless he registered the birth of course!). If Alice was still married to Charles wouldn't he be registered as the father (in those days)?
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Ok I have found out that he could have died at sea! However I have searched ship wrecks for the years in question and have come up with zero. I did find a post on here which suggests I would be able to obtain a certificate but I think I would need to have more information.
Anyone got any ideas of where I go from here please?
Thanks
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I would check "deaths at sea" rather than shipwrecks. One of mine died on board ship but the ship wasn't wrecked he was just taken ill.
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If Alice was still married to Charles wouldn't he be registered as the father (in those days)?
He COULD be, if she said he was the father - a married woman could (and still can) name her husband as the father of her child without him being present, but if she does that knowing it to be false/impossible then she would be committing an imprisonable offence (up to 2 years hard labour, or 7 years penal servitude), under s40 of the 1874 B&D Act.
Making false statements to a registrar is now a specific offence under the Perjury Act.
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Rough settlement exam in Lambeth, 29/11/97
Alice Walker
54 Larkhall Road
m/n Bulley
Widow of Charles Walker, married Xmas 1888
Names children, lots of info
husband died in America S. Paulo Brazil
Date 29.4.96 is then mentioned, don't know if that is when Charles died.
On ancestry, London Poor Law and Board of Guardian Records
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=1557
right hand side, "Browse this collection"
borough Lambeth
union Lambeth
record type Settlement Papers
scroll down to Rough Settlement Examinations, 1897-1898
image 114 (of 317, book is indexed at front)
John
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WOW John that is amazing,I don't know how you find these things.
Well done you :D
Carol
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Brilliant find so the rumour about his death looks to be correct.
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Thanks, Lambeth is a good place to look for exams, there are lots of them.
Quite a bit of info in the exam about Alice's family, but not really anything else about her husband's death?
I think there is a little "t" there, St. Paulo.
But, yes, it seems the rumours were correct.
John
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Brilliant find, can't find the records on my phone but sound fascinating so will look later.
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WOW John that is amazing,I don't know how you find these things.
Well done you :D
Carol
John is detective par excellence (he also recently broke down a seemingly impenetrable brick wall in County Durham :D )
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John do you take requests :D
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John do you take requests :D
;D
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WOW John that is amazing,I don't know how you find these things.
Well done you :D
Carol
John is detective par excellence (he also recently broke down a seemingly impenetrable brick wall in County Durham :D )
I have to agree with you Jen. I sometimes wonder how he finds what he does ;D
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WOW John that is amazing,I don't know how you find these things.
Well done you :D
Carol
John is detective par excellence (he also recently broke down a seemingly impenetrable brick wall in County Durham :D )
I have to agree with you Jen. I sometimes wonder how he finds what he does ;D
He needs to give us all lessons,cos obviously we're all not looking in the right places :D
Carol
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Thanks again for the kind words. But, honestly, what I found is nothing compared to the miracles of research that are performed by Rootschatters every day.
Let's hope that Suzy gets to see that image soon.
Happy new year to everybody
John
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Wow thanks so much Jon that is amazing I have only just seen your reply. I have also just spoken to a relative who has confirmed that he died on the Railways in San Paulo. Would I still be able to obtain a death certificate though?