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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: HAYLEY ROGERS on Sunday 31 December 17 11:47 GMT (UK)

Title: CHARLES KINSELA FUNERALS
Post by: HAYLEY ROGERS on Sunday 31 December 17 11:47 GMT (UK)
Hello!

I'm looking for information / threads to help me find out about my Grandfather and lost family.

My Grandfather was:  GILBERT FRANK SAWYER. 
Date of Death 07/02/1966.
Funeral Date: 11/02/1966. 

We know that his ashes lay in the Round Rose Garden at Eastern Suburbs Memorial Park.  He was 49 at the time of his passing. We found this information out from the memorial park along with the name of the funeral directors Charles Kinsela Funerals.

He was married to a lady called BERYL MELITA GEORGINA SAWYER (Born SMITH) in SYDNEY. Registration Number 15607/1949.

I'm hoping to find other the records for Gilberts funeral and relatives related to either Gilbert or Beryl.

Thank you!
Hayley
Title: Re: CHARLES KINSELA FUNERALS
Post by: paco on Sunday 31 December 17 15:31 GMT (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat! There is a family tree for this family on the Australian site, which I presume is yours as you are also mentioned on there-Hayley Rogers. If this is not your tree then there is a lot of information on there that you would need to check out thoroughly. However I have found the birth for Gilbert Frank Sawyer who was born in the 4th qtr of 1917 Cuckfield, Sussex-Mother Puttick. You can send for a copy of his birth to the General Register Office, and then you will have correct information for moving back in time.
Regards.
Title: Re: CHARLES KINSELA FUNERALS
Post by: HAYLEY ROGERS on Sunday 31 December 17 18:02 GMT (UK)
Hi Paco,

Yes I am aware of the family tree, its been put together by my cousin who lives in Australia.  We are working together on it.

I know that the records for the funeral directors CHARLES KINSELA FUNERALS are open to the public  at the TROVE in Australia, but I don't know how to gain access them from England.
Title: Re: CHARLES KINSELA FUNERALS
Post by: crisane on Sunday 31 December 17 18:46 GMT (UK)
Hi
This article has a footnote under Select Bibliography which refers to the records of this firm.
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/kinsela-charles-henry-william-10747

I can't imagine that the records  of any person's funeral they conducted would be in the public domain so do you mean the Funeral notice?
Trove is a collection of Australian newspapers which is free to view online. Just google it.
Title: Re: CHARLES KINSELA FUNERALS
Post by: crisane on Sunday 31 December 17 18:55 GMT (UK)
Australia Cemetery Index, 1808-2007
Gilbert Frank Sawyer
Age at death 49
Birth date about 1917
Died 10 Feb 1966
Death Location -   Robin Hood Inn Waverley
Cemetery - Eastern Suburbs Crematorium
Section - Memorial Gardens B4
New South Wales
Title: Re: CHARLES KINSELA FUNERALS
Post by: crisane on Sunday 31 December 17 18:58 GMT (UK)
In the 1958 australian electoral rolls he and Beryl are at Victoria hotel Griffith. Gilbert is the hotel manager.
Title: Re: CHARLES KINSELA FUNERALS
Post by: crisane on Sunday 31 December 17 19:05 GMT (UK)
1954 electoral rolls Gilbert and Beryl are at 199 Crown Street West Sydney. Beryl is a mail officer and Gilbert a hotel employee.
Title: Re: CHARLES KINSELA FUNERALS
Post by: crisane on Sunday 31 December 17 19:08 GMT (UK)
In the 1958 australian electoral rolls he and Beryl are at Victoria hotel Griffith. Gilbert is the hotel manager.
There is also a 1958 electoral roll which still has them at 199 Crown street with the same occupations as the 1954 record.
Title: Re: CHARLES KINSELA FUNERALS
Post by: HAYLEY ROGERS on Sunday 31 December 17 19:33 GMT (UK)
Thank you, that's interesting I never knew that.   I know he was the Hotel Manager of the Robin Hood, where he died. 
Title: Re: CHARLES KINSELA FUNERALS
Post by: paco on Sunday 31 December 17 21:22 GMT (UK)
Most of this information is on your cousins family tree, so maybe you do not have access to it. I would not imagine that you would get much information from the funeral directors other than that which you already know, and as you want to find out more about Gilbert who was born in this country you would probably be better off researching him. On your cousins tree it states that his parents were James Henry Sawyer and Gertrude Puttick, which ties in with the information I found previously.
Regards.
Title: Re: CHARLES KINSELA FUNERALS
Post by: crisane on Sunday 31 December 17 23:22 GMT (UK)
I was doing a general search for a Gilbert F Sawyer and found this on ancestry with a link to The National Archives site.

Medal listing of     Sawyer, Gilbert Frank
Discharge number - R127129
Date of birth 24 September 1917
Date:    [1946-2002]
Held by:    The National Archives, Kew
Legal status:    Public Record(s)
Closure status:    Open Document, Open Description

So I went to check the birth registrations in all England and Wales 1916 - 1918. There is only the one found by paco in the December 1/4 of 1917.
The birth date of Sept 24 does not match what is in your cousin's ancestry tree. Does she have his birth certificate?

Anyway if you wanted to you can download the record from The National Archives site. Cost 3 pounds 50 p. I have no idea what information you will find in it.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D4363685
Title: Re: CHARLES KINSELA FUNERALS
Post by: cupoflife on Monday 01 January 18 03:15 GMT (UK)
Not sure if you have this info?
naa.gov.au
Personal documents of British assisted migrants, annual single number series
Smith, Beryl Melita Georgina [Box 13]   
Contents date range   1947 - 1948

(see pg 48) https://www.legislation.gov.au/file/1981P04
Commonwealth of Australia Gazette No. P4. 13 May 1981
GRANT OF CERTIFICATES OF AUSTRALIAN CITIZENSHIP
Sawyer, Beryl Melita, 15 Normac St, Roseville NSW 2069, 12/11/1980
Title: Re: CHARLES KINSELA FUNERALS
Post by: Jamjar on Monday 01 January 18 03:53 GMT (UK)
Death notice:

SAWYER Gilbert Frank Death notice 7-2-1966 Death late of Waverley Sydney Morning Herald 9-2-1966   

Jamjar

Title: Re: CHARLES KINSELA FUNERALS
Post by: cupoflife on Monday 01 January 18 04:15 GMT (UK)
Death notice:

SAWYER Gilbert Frank Death notice 7-2-1966 Death late of Waverley Sydney Morning Herald 9-2-1966   

Jamjar

No mention of wife or children in death notice.
SMH 9 Feb 1966
SAWYER, Gilbert Frank, February 7, (suddenly), at Robin Hood Hotel, Waverley. Watch Herald for funeral arrangements.
Title: Re: CHARLES KINSELA FUNERALS
Post by: emilypos on Monday 01 January 18 06:26 GMT (UK)
About 8 - 10 years ago  the  NSW Central Coast FHS  Gosford indexed a lot of films of Charles Kinselas accounts .From memory these films were property of the SAG ?? And these films were water damaged ??
 I helped a little on this project . At the time I thought it was a great deal of work  for not much info The data was published on fiche and on  CD.  We have this in our library but that's closed till mid Jan.   His death notice is in Ryerson .SMH 9 Feb 1966

Bye
Emilyp
Title: Re: CHARLES KINSELA FUNERALS
Post by: HAYLEY ROGERS on Monday 01 January 18 18:17 GMT (UK)
I cannot seem to find anyting else related to Gilberts wife BERYL MELITA GEORGINA SAWYER besides the immigration paperrs, their marriage certificate, her name on the electoral rolls ... any advice where to go from here please? 
Title: Re: CHARLES KINSELA FUNERALS
Post by: emilypos on Monday 01 January 18 21:42 GMT (UK)
I cannot seem to find anyting else related to Gilberts wife BERYL MELITA GEORGINA SAWYER besides the immigration paperrs, their marriage certificate, her name on the electoral rolls ... any advice where to go from here please?

Maybe find her birth cert ?  Law abiding citizens ,such as myself,usually don't leave huge footprints in the records ::)

Bye

Emilyp
Title: Re: CHARLES KINSELA FUNERALS
Post by: cando on Tuesday 02 January 18 02:20 GMT (UK)
I cannot seem to find anyting else related to Gilberts wife BERYL MELITA GEORGINA SAWYER besides the immigration paperrs, their marriage certificate, her name on the electoral rolls ... any advice where to go from here please? 

Have you purchased the 1949 marriage certificate? 

Transcriptions are available in NSW from accredited agents.  Cost AUD$20 and the transcription is emailed to you.  Exactly the same information as on the certified certificate.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx#transcription
Information would include the bride and groom's parents' names including their mothers' maiden names; places of birth and ages at the time of marriage; marital status of both the bride and groom.

You need to furnish ALL the following details to the transcription agent or you will be charged a search fee.

15607/1949
SAWYER Gilbert Frank
SMITH Beryl Melita Georgina
District Sydney

It is possible that Beryl Melita may have already been Mrs B M SMITH when she emigrated to Australia in 1947 on the ORMONDE accompanied by a Mr J SMITH.  Their former address was Bk 83, Ecclesall Road, Sheffield.  His occupation was a footings operator.  Of course with such a commonly occurring name as SMITH it may simply be a co-incidence of initials.

Have you checked Whitepages?  It may be worth your while ;)
https://www.whitepages.com.au/residential

Cando