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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: CES-genealogy on Wednesday 03 January 18 15:44 GMT (UK)

Title: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: CES-genealogy on Wednesday 03 January 18 15:44 GMT (UK)
Hi people,

I have been stuck on this topic for a while now and still no closer to finding out the answers.

I have got to a marriage in Branston, Leicesterhshire in 1816 between William Swain and Eleanor Johnson, it is with consent of guardians.

They have 9 Children all born in Branston:
Mary 1816 - 1818
Ann 1818 - 1818
Elizabeth 1819 - 1888 - married Samuel Keal
John 1820 - 1821
William 1822 - 1883 - married Ann Judson
Mary 1824
Ann 1827
John 1829
Richard 1831.

Now I have found stuff out about two of them and I descend from William Swain 1822.

I can not find nothing about them upto 1850 when William Gets married to Ann.

There are deaths for Eleanor Swain in Lincolnshire and Leicestershire but they are not her.

There is another Swain family in Branston , Leicestershire and I have tried to research them but got stuck too.

Any hints, tips or guidance would be great as I have been stuck on this for some time now.

Chris
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 03 January 18 15:48 GMT (UK)
Do William & Eleanor appear on census.  When was the last child born and where

ADDED
I see you have now modified your post with lots more information  ;D
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: Ellenmai on Wednesday 03 January 18 15:51 GMT (UK)
What is it you want to know? Is it why they had to have consent to marry from their guardians ?
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: CES-genealogy on Wednesday 03 January 18 15:55 GMT (UK)
Hi Ellenmai,

I want to find them before the marriage in 1816, I know Eleanor's parents are Richard Johnson and Alice Burden.

Also with the consent, Eleanor was born in 1874 in Branston.

I can't find anything to do with her parents either haha.

This has had me scratching my head for years
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: CES-genealogy on Wednesday 03 January 18 16:00 GMT (UK)
Just to confuse things even more.

Attached is the pallots marriage for William and Eleanor, which when you search for it it comes up in Barnstaple, Devon but clearly says Branston, Leicestershire on it
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: josey on Wednesday 03 January 18 16:04 GMT (UK)
I know Eleanor's parents are Richard Johnson and Alice Burden.
Just checking - how do you know this?

The Pallot's issue must have been a typo when being transcribed.
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 03 January 18 16:07 GMT (UK)
Just for information
Samuel Keal married Elizabeth in Grantham 2 April 1845 and in 1851 that family are living in

William jnr also married in Grantham
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: CES-genealogy on Wednesday 03 January 18 16:11 GMT (UK)
Hi Josey,

I have got Baptism and Marriage records for Branston, I could be wrong and have read to much into the information.

This is what it says on the marriage:

6   03   Jun   1816   William   Swain   Bat   OTP   Elizabeth   Johnson   Spin   OTP   Banns

This is what it says on baptism
321   Eleanor   Johnson   Richard   Alice   26-Oct   1784G258   
305   Elizabeth   Johnson   Richard   Alice   09-Dec   1781   
52   Mary   Johnson   Richard   Alice   11-Sep   1774
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: CES-genealogy on Wednesday 03 January 18 16:12 GMT (UK)
Thank you for that Rosie99, I knew they got married but thought it was after 1851
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: Ellenmai on Wednesday 03 January 18 16:16 GMT (UK)
Even more confusing on their marriage record in 1816 William marks his name with a cross but Eleanor signs her name as Hellen Johnson
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: CES-genealogy on Wednesday 03 January 18 16:25 GMT (UK)
Ellenmai How do you know what and where have you found  this?

Thank you for your help
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: Ellenmai on Wednesday 03 January 18 16:41 GMT (UK)
It's on the Leicestershire Marriage Transcriptions on FindMyPast.
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: CES-genealogy on Wednesday 03 January 18 16:48 GMT (UK)
Thank you for this, do you think that there is more behind this?

Surely the fact the has put his mark doesnt really show much as that was nearly the norm back than (esp in the Swain side) .

I am surprised with the whole Hellen thing tho.

Do you think it is worth looking up the people it was in the presence of?

Also both William Snr and William Jnr are down ass boatman in William Jnr's marriage certificate
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 03 January 18 16:50 GMT (UK)
Ellen/Helen/Eleanor/Ellenor/Helena are all variations that should be considered  :-X
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: CES-genealogy on Wednesday 03 January 18 16:57 GMT (UK)
It does chuck more of an option into tings I can look into, I always thought I would be able to find the children but cant wait even find them in 1841 census
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: CES-genealogy on Wednesday 03 January 18 17:08 GMT (UK)
I have just noticed that on all the marriages above William and Eleanor's that Eleanor is at both marriages and signs to say in the presence of in both, and the lady that signs William and Eleanor's Ann Finn her wedding is the one above
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: CES-genealogy on Wednesday 03 January 18 17:18 GMT (UK)
Could it be that she worked at the church?

She is on a few others aswell
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: jonw65 on Wednesday 03 January 18 17:23 GMT (UK)
Could be Mary in 1851, in Lincolnshire, with son
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGNW-HBL

Possibility in Grantham in 1841
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQ12-6CM
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: jonw65 on Wednesday 03 January 18 17:25 GMT (UK)
Is she the lady who married Edward Gamble, 6th January 1855, Grantham?
Mary Swain, full age, Spinster, residence Grantham, father William Swain, Labourer
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: jonw65 on Wednesday 03 January 18 17:30 GMT (UK)
born in Branston:
Mary 1816 - 1818
Ann 1818 - 1818
John 1820 - 1821

Deaths - presumably burial dates - provided by FamilySearch? (they often do with infants)
But are burials for Branston online? None after 1812 listed on findmypast
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/results/world-images/leicestershire-parish-records-browse?parish=branston
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: CES-genealogy on Wednesday 03 January 18 17:39 GMT (UK)
Hi Jonw65,

The Mary you have found looks very much like it could be Mary Swain from William and Elenaor.

In the 1861 census William Swain's name has changed to William Gamble.

In 1871 Edward Gamble is married to a margaret Gramble so I looked for Mary's death and found one in 1863 aged 41 which could add up.

All the dates I have for the infants are from Family search, I have been to the church and looked around the grave yard and found nothing, only Swain's that had the farm just out side the village (Branston Lodge, Swain's Lodge, Terrace Lodge) the name changed a lot.
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: CES-genealogy on Monday 05 February 18 20:30 GMT (UK)
Hello and once again I am stumped.

I put a post on not so long ago asking for help to find William and Eleanor Swain.

Well today i FOUND William finally on the 1840 census, with a new wife Elizabeth and one of his Daughters Elizabeth. On Williams and Elizabeth Wedding document there is a Thomas Keal, Elizabeth Swain married Thomas's Son Samuel.

So the next problem I have is this.

William dies in 1857, I have found this out in the local paper archives.

But when I search for a death there is nothing, but then I find a Burial for a John William Swain on the same date but again cant find it on Ancestry or FindMyPast.

I also can't find anything out about William and Elizabeth's children who are Sarah Swain born 1848 Grantham. and Alfred Swain born 1854 (apart from I think he married Eliza Coulson).

Please help me.  ;D
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: BumbleB on Tuesday 06 February 18 08:44 GMT (UK)
Sarah Swain - Grantham Union Registration District:
March quarter 1848 - mother's maiden name Starbuck
December quartr 1848 - mother's maiden name Dickenson

Alfred Swain - Grantham Union Registration District:
December quarter 1852 - mother's maiden name Starbuck

I cannot see any marriage entry for Swain/Starbuck - September quarter 1837-December quarter 1852.

Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Tuesday 06 February 18 09:30 GMT (UK)
Lincolnshire parish Burials on F M P.  Also on  NBI only additional info - Denomination Anglican

Burial image from register states John William Swain, abode Sand pit lane, Grantham, age 76

the index reads:

John Swain
Birth year   1781
Burial place   Grantham, St Wulfram
Father's name William (this is not included on original image)
Age   76
Burial date   06 Apr 1857
Church   St Wulfram
Source: Lincolnshire Archives, parish burials

Sand Pit Lane is the address of William/Elizabeth with dau Sarah and step dau Mary A Hancock in 1851 so think it is possibly your man? William was 66 in 1851, but he did have a wife in her 30's so maybe lost a few years.

Marriage in 1840 Grantham she married as Hancock as likely widowed.

Cas

Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: BumbleB on Tuesday 06 February 18 09:40 GMT (UK)
Well done  :)

Marriage at St Wulfram, Grantham - 20 September 1840
William Swain, full age, widower of Grantham.  Father:  William, Labourer
Elizabeth Hancock, full age, widow of Grantham.  Father:  William Starbrook, Labourer

Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: BumbleB on Tuesday 06 February 18 10:11 GMT (UK)
Elizabeth, daughter of William (Labourer) and Elizabeth Starbuck of Harston - baptised at Harston on 19 March 1817.

Added:

There are a number of siblings baptised at Harston from 1808. Can't readily see a marriage for William and Elizabeth.
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Tuesday 06 February 18 10:15 GMT (UK)
Source: Lincolnshire Burials F M P
Sarah Swain age 4
Abode: Sand pit lane, Grantham
Birth year   1848
Burial place Grantham, St Wulfram
Father   William
Burial date   12 Sep 1852
Church   St Wulfram

Cas
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Tuesday 06 February 18 10:34 GMT (UK)
1861 - 11, Greenwoods Lane, Grantham, Lincolnshire
Elizabeth   Swain   Head   Widow   Female   40   Seamstress   Harston, Leicestershire
Alfred   Swain   Son      Male   7   Scholar   Grantham, Lincolnshire
Mary Ann   Hadcock   Daughter   Unmarried   Female   23   Washerwoman   Milton, Leicestershire   
Esther   Hadcock   Granddaughter      Female   2   Scholar   Grantham, Lincolnshire

Cas
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: CES-genealogy on Tuesday 06 February 18 19:14 GMT (UK)
Hi, thank you so much,

So my William Swain was actually John William Swain?

I’m going to have to find a death for his first wife Eleanor.

So many for tales for this family.

Did you manage to find anything for Alfred?

With more time and experience I will find more ways getting info

Thank you again,
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Tuesday 06 February 18 19:58 GMT (UK)
Difficult to know if he was John William or just William. Could be an error by vicar in register or could be correct. Would think his wife would have given the info.

Have you looked for a bapt that would fit either name with father William.

As for Alfred, not finding a lot on him after 1861. There is a marriage in 1881 in area to Catherine Cassady if I remember, his father was John, so if burial info correct it may be a possible.

Good luck

Cas
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: CES-genealogy on Tuesday 06 February 18 20:31 GMT (UK)
I do find it inconsiderate of them changing their names all the time ha ha

In 1851 census it says he is born in Harrington Lincolnshire but that seems to be a long way away
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: tup1 on Wednesday 07 February 18 19:16 GMT (UK)
Just a line to say Sandpit Lane was changed to Welby Street Grantham and Greenwoods lane changed to Greenwoods Row which was just off Welby Street.
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: CES-genealogy on Sunday 11 March 18 12:09 GMT (UK)
Hi Tup1, thank you for that information.

Still very much stuck on this case, cant find and births for William Swain or John Swain in Lincolnshire.

Not sure which way I can go with this side of my family now, really want it to go back further but just stuck all the time

Chris
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: tup1 on Saturday 24 March 18 12:01 GMT (UK)
Hi In the 1851 census the place of birth could be a miss spelling of Honington a village just outside of Grantham instead of Harrington.
Title: Re: Swain family in Leicestershire and Lincolnshire
Post by: Geoff-E on Saturday 24 March 18 14:23 GMT (UK)
Hi In the 1851 census the place of birth could be a miss spelling of Honington a village just outside of Grantham instead of Harrington.

It looks like it says Honington to me.

The construction is very different from Haston on the next line.