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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: Gordon Hughes on Wednesday 03 January 18 19:47 GMT (UK)

Title: Robert Jones, Llanelidan, mid 1800s
Post by: Gordon Hughes on Wednesday 03 January 18 19:47 GMT (UK)
Hi,

I'm trying to trace back from my g-g-grandfather Robert Jones, who was born around 1929 in Llanelidan, and who married a Margaret (Jones ?) around 1855. Margaret came from Llandderfel.

The problem I have is that Llanelidan is missing from the 1861 and 1841 censuses. I know that in 1871 Robert and Margaret were living at Bryn Melyn, but in the 1851 census I can find no record of either Robert or Margaret, or their residence from 1871 which was Bryn Melyn.

On top of that, the Parish Records have no been transcribed for that period, so I would probably have to make a visit to Aberystwyth to investigate further. I could buy a copy of the Parish Records that have been transcribed, but they only go up to 1811.

Before I think about a trip to Aberystwyth, does anyone have any guidance, or maybe access to some of the Parish Records that might help me ?

Many thanks, Gordon.
Title: Re: Robert Jones, Llanelidan, mid 1800s
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 03 January 18 20:21 GMT (UK)
Hi Gordon

I've got some Llanelidan records (as you say, up to 1811-12). Have you found the ref to their marriage as that should give you Robert's fathers name.

Gadget
Title: Re: Robert Jones, Llanelidan, mid 1800s
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 03 January 18 20:25 GMT (UK)
Nearest I can find on the North Wales BMD is Corwen, civil marriage
Robert Jones and probably Margaret Jones, 1855
Local ref is CRWN/02/33

Gadget
Title: Re: Robert Jones, Llanelidan, mid 1800s
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 03 January 18 20:30 GMT (UK)
There is a Llanelidan baptism online  for a Robert Jones~
24 Feb 1827  Parents Edward and Catherine of Ty Isa.

What were the children called?

Gadget
Title: Re: Robert Jones, Llanelidan, mid 1800s
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 03 January 18 20:36 GMT (UK)
Also 7 Jan 1830 Parents Jeffrey and Margaret of Llechwedd y Bryn

So it might be either of these or neither. I have the Blackwell non-c index on my other machine but you could check Freereg for any non-conformist baptisms.

Gadget

Added - none on Freereg for Llanelidan or Corwen  but if non-c they could have used nearby churches/chapels
Title: Re: Robert Jones, Llanelidan, mid 1800s
Post by: despair on Wednesday 03 January 18 22:51 GMT (UK)
If you do not have the later censuses,Robert and Margaret are at Bryn Melyn up to and including the 1901 census

1881 RG11/5523/26/7
1891 RG12/4422/21/6
1901 RG13/5229/23/6

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Robert Jones, Llanelidan, mid 1800s
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 03 January 18 23:14 GMT (UK)
GRO ref to the marriage I referred to above:

Q2 1855, Corwen. 11b, 705

If you order it, specify that you only want to purchase it if the bride is a Margaret Jones


Gadget

Added  -
Nearest I can find on the North Wales BMD is Corwen, civil marriage
Robert Jones and probably Margaret Jones, 1855
Local ref is CRWN/02/33

Gadget

This record code is the local record code and the original 'local' copy is kept at Wrexham Records Office, See  North Wales BMD site.
Title: Re: Robert Jones, Llanelidan, mid 1800s
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 04 January 18 13:17 GMT (UK)
Only other marriage showing around that time/area is in Bala,  Q1 1856, 11b 579
Robert Jones and Margaret Jones

This is probably the marriage in Llanycil parish (Bala) ~

26 January 1856
Robert Jones , 20, bach, labourer, Llangwm, David Jones, labourer
Margaret Jones, 19, sp,  -, Bala, John Davies, Tailor
Witnessses - John Hughes, Ann Jones

From what you've said re ages, etc. this looks unlikely so the 1855 one, previously referenced, is the most likely.

Gadget
Title: Re: Robert Jones, Llanelidan, mid 1800s
Post by: Gordon Hughes on Thursday 04 January 18 16:49 GMT (UK)
Gadget, Roger,

Thanks for all the replies. I've now done some more research and here's what I've discovered.

Robert Jones was actually born in 1854. I found the baptism records for him and his siblings on Freereg as follows:
Robert Jones, 11/3/1854, St Elidan
Jane Jones, 30/12/1855, ditto
Elias Jones, 1/1/1858, ditto
Margaret Jones, 13/10/1855. ditto
John Jones, 1/1/1862, ditto

Cross-referencing these against the GRO then it would appear that Robert Jones snr. married a Margaret ROBERTS, not Jones. The Reg. District for the above births is Ruthin not Corwen, since Llanelidan is in Denbigh, but as yet I've not found any marriage record for Robert and Margaret. Since Margaret was born in Llandderfel then they may have married in either location. It's a shame the early census records for Llanelidan are missing because that might give a clue as to their residence in those years. Maybe the full baptism records indicate residence but that's not in the transcripts on Freereg.

I shall continue my research !

Again, many thanks, Gordon
Title: Re: Robert Jones, Llanelidan, mid 1800s
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 04 January 18 16:57 GMT (UK)
Ah - I saw a marriage for a Robert marrying a Margaret Roberts  but discounted as you seemed to be fairly sure  that Margaret  was a Jones.  Will go and look for it again.

The RD in that area are complex - related to the Poor Law Unions, of course. Bala , Corwen, Ruthin, Wrexham and Oswestry  for the various parishes in that broad area. They also changed. E.g. my parents were born and married in the same parish as my sister and I but their's were registered in one RD and ours in another!

Gadget
Title: Re: Robert Jones, Llanelidan, mid 1800s
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 04 January 18 17:03 GMT (UK)
Here tis ~

Robert Jones and Margaret Roberts
Ruthin, 1854, Q1, 11b, 491


Gadget
Title: Re: Robert Jones, Llanelidan, mid 1800s
Post by: Gordon Hughes on Thursday 04 January 18 17:12 GMT (UK)
Thanks Gadget,

Yes, I broke my own rule by listening to information passed on by another family member without double-checking it against the available records. This is why I don't post family trees on Ancestry etc and I never take for granted anything I see posted there unless there are records that verify the provenance !

Anyway, even though Robert Jnr was apparently born in Q1 1854, I think that marriage record is the most likely one and it's worth applying for the certificate which will hopefully confirm the residences of both parties.

Thanks again, Gordon.
Title: Re: Robert Jones, Llanelidan, mid 1800s
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 04 January 18 17:20 GMT (UK)
There's also a possible in 1851 in Bala - but not not sure - marriage finder is not as confident - a couple of Anns listed as well!

Bala, 1851, Q3,  vol 27, p 171
Title: Re: Robert Jones, Llanelidan, mid 1800s
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 04 January 18 17:31 GMT (UK)
This is all very odd as I'm not locating them on the North Wales BMD site. I know that there were problems with some of the registrars ' permissions when the info was collected but I thought that the Ruthin area problems were with the Churches  :-\

I'll try treble checking.
Title: Re: Robert Jones, Llanelidan, mid 1800s
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 04 January 18 17:34 GMT (UK)
Yep - both marriages are on the FreeBMD site.

Title: Re: Robert Jones, Llanelidan, mid 1800s
Post by: despair on Thursday 04 January 18 17:53 GMT (UK)
If you put Robert Jones alone in the NorthWalesBMD site,Margaret Roberts appears as an option with another pair,but if you enter any element of her name as well,nothing appears!

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Robert Jones, Llanelidan, mid 1800s
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 04 January 18 18:30 GMT (UK)
I'm sure it wasn't like that in the olden days, Roger. It was confusing as 3 other sites were giving them  ::)

Gordon - when you order the certs, specify the spouse to be Margaret Roberts.

Gadget
Title: Re: Robert Jones, Llanelidan, mid 1800s
Post by: hanes teulu on Thursday 04 January 18 18:34 GMT (UK)
All five baptismal records of the children baptised Llanelidan, 1854-1862, parents Robert and Margaret Jones, show "Abode - Brynhyfryd" and father's occupation "Labourer
Title: Re: Robert Jones, Llanelidan, mid 1800s
Post by: Gordon Hughes on Thursday 04 January 18 18:43 GMT (UK)
Ah, now that is VERY helpful.

I've got the Census CDs for Merioneth and Denbigh for 1841 through 1861 so I can try and check the occupants of that residence for those years.

Diolch yn fawr, Gordon.