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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: kiwi2011 on Friday 05 January 18 17:07 GMT (UK)
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Trying to find address in Liverpool for 1868.
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A little bit more info might help anyone here!
For example:
Have you got his address in 1861 and 1871?
Why 1868? Did anything particular happen then, for which there might be a surviving record with an address on it? e.g birth of a child, marriage, death of spouse etc
How do you know he was in Liverpool in 1868?
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We are trying to figure out if John is or is not as stated on a wedding certificate a watchmaker. I found through the National Museum Liverpool under Horology:
Name Winstanley John
Date 1868
Town Liverpool
Directory Gores
Street 1 17 Eaton Place, Breck Road
Town Liverpool
Trade Watchmaker
I was wondering how to check this out in the Gores directory for Liverpool
Thank you
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Do you mean he was a watchmaker on marriage?
When was that?
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No it was listed on his daughters marriage certificate in 1868.
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Sorry Kiwi , I am probably being thick, but surely you have the address - 17 Eaton Place?
What is it you are wanting help finding?
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I can't find anything on the 1961 or 1971 census for a John Winstanley that have a watchmaker in the UK census. So was wondering if this was just a fanciful thought or reality. Thus I was wondering how to prove it. Just wanted to get more information on the address such as was it a jewelers (check out Gores registry for what was at the address)?
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What is his daughter’s name and year of birth?
Who did she marry?
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Daughter is Margaret Winstanley born abt. 1853 in liverpool.. Thanks
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Margaret Winstanley married Richard Hughes in 1868 Liverpool.
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If I have the right address it is occupied by Henry Johnson and family in 1871 3819/109/12
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We are trying to figure out if John is or is not as stated on a wedding certificate a watchmaker. I found through the National Museum Liverpool under Horology:
Name Winstanley John
Date 1868
Town Liverpool
Directory Gores
Street 1 17 Eaton Place, Breck Road
Town Liverpool
Trade Watchmaker
I was wondering how to check this out in the Gores directory for Liverpool
Thank you
You have found this entry in Gores, is that right?
Margaret gives her father as John, a watchmaker on her marriage and you are trying to connect this address with John?
It is confusing.
I can see one Margaret b abt 1852 with father John but she is still at home in 1871.
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Think this is 1861 for Eaton Place -Edward Bull and family
1861 2715/43/32
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1861 2728/49/9
Margaret Winstanley 11 yrs with father Thomas Winstanley, watchmaker , mother Margaret and siblings.
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the heart of Watchmaking in Lancashire at that time was in Prescot - and coincidentally there is a Margaret Winstanley born in Prescot 1849 - ties in with census record - so maybe they were from Prescot - although part of Liverpool now - it wasn't in 1868 period ..
Try contacting a member named Stephen Nulty - bit of an expert on Prescot genealogy - see if he has anything on John Winstanley ??
good luck
:)
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Hi garstonite,
Would Margaret give Liverpool as pob though if she was born Prescot?
The one I quote in 1861 has a father Thomas, watchmaker, born St Helens.
It would be good if Kiwi2011 could give us the marriage details - address and witnesses. It might help.
I am still not sure if Margaret was living in Eaton Place when she married or that is just the entry from Gores directory.
Hopefully she will be back soon.
Heywood
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Here is the info off the MC:
Richard Hughes, 21, bachelor, joiner. Residence: 19 Mullburry street(maybe)? Margaret Winstanley, 19, Spinster. Residence: 8 Guilford(maybe)? St. Groom father: John Hughes, Joiner. Brides fthr: James Winstanley, Watchmaker. Witness: Edward McGuffie & Sophie Hughes.
Here is the Horology link for Thomas from the museum:
http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/wml/collections/horology/results.aspx?&name=thomas+winstanley&startyear=1840&endyear=1880&town=liverpool&trade=watchmaker&page=0
Will try to post the wedding cert.
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Hi kiwi2011,
In reply #2 you have Margaret’s father as John. So we should be looking for a James, is that right?
Can I just say also that you cannot post a whole marriage certificate due to copyright, just a snippet.
Heywood
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Marriage certificate posted here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=785210.
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Hi garstonite,
Would Margaret give Liverpool as pob though if she was born Prescot?
The one I quote in 1861 has a father Thomas, watchmaker, born St Helens.
It would be good if Kiwi2011 could give us the marriage details - address and witnesses. It might help.
I am still not sure if Margaret was living in Eaton Place when she married or that is just the entry from Gores directory.
Hopefully she will be back soon.
Heywood
St Helens came under Prescot at that time - so I have to think that is the right Thomas / Margaret...hopefully Stephen Nulty might read this thread - he is very clued up about Prescot and Watchmakers :)
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Here is the info off the MC:
Richard Hughes, 21, bachelor, joiner. Residence: 19 Mullburry street(maybe)? Margaret Winstanley, 19, Spinster. Residence: 8 Guilford(maybe)? St. Groom father: John Hughes, Joiner. Brides fthr: James Winstanley, Watchmaker. Witness: Edward McGuffie & Sophie Hughes.
Here is the Horology link for Thomas from the museum:
http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/wml/collections/horology/results.aspx?
&name=thomas+winstanley&startyear=1840&endyear=1880&town=liverpool&trade=watchmaker&page=0
Will try to post the wedding cert.
Hi Kiwi
The Thomas Winstanley in this search is my ggg grandfather, I have copies of the marriage certs for his children apart from Margaret. If I had seen the certificate with her father as James or John I probably discarded it and I do not recognise Margaret's address, (the family seems to have moved around a lot). However I did notice the name of one of the witnesses it's looks similar to the name of a lodger at Amelia Griffin nee Winstanley's home in the 1871 Census, his name was Edward McGuckin according to the census. By 1871 Amelia was the head of the family and they lived in Brunel Street.
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On checking the marriage certs I have noticed that Amelia and Margaret's brother Thomas manages to sign his name so that it looks like James on a couple of the certificates so maybe whoever wrote out the certificate managed to do that as well.
Also I think Edward McGuckin/Guffin? was a witness a couple of other Winstanley marriages including the Second marriage of Amelia. I can photograph Edward's signature on the certificates and try and post it so you can see if it seems similar to the one on Margaret's.
On the subject of the addresses: none the siblings marriage certs, have the same home address and they do not match with any of the addresses on Baptism, Census or death certs that I have. Hope this is of interest
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PS I can't see the marriage cert on the other post
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Hi Kiwi2011
Based on the information you gave from Margaret's death certificate in a previous post I have done some further research and I'm pretty sure that Margaret is the daughter of Thomas Winstanley, watchmaker born in St Helen's and Margaret Sturdy of Liverpool and my gg grandmother's sister.
Also this is the family in the Horology report you attached.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=773471.0 (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=773471.0)
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Purlekat,
I'm not able to attach the excerpt of the marriage cert here, showing the witness' signature. So will do so separately with a similar subject name.
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Someone had a family of winstanley watch and clock makers in whitford street and pen y ball street holywell Flintshire look in the search bar
Wendy
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The John Winstanley who was the son of Thomas Winstanley and Margaret Sturdy is my great-great-grandfather.
He died in 1876, aged only 30 and had been divorced from Kate Feenan earlier that year. They had one daughter, Annie (my great-granny).
On Annie's wedding to John McPoland in 1893 (in Laurencetown, County Down) John is described as being a "sea captain" although I have long suspected that this might have been a post mortem promotion as he is described as a "sea steward" in the 1871 census.